Is the relationship over?

16
Yes, absolutely, the square is an aspect used in horary along with conjunctions, oppositiions, trines, and sextiles.

But I was taught to look only at the aspects between the significators and the Moon, because otherwise things can get awfully confusing. (However, a retrograde Mercury can muddy up the works, too, because it often signifies somebody who changes his or her mind about the matter.)

That's why it's so important to pick the right house as the significator of the querent and the quesited (the question).

And yes, if you are asking the question about someone else or on behalf of them, then you would turn the chart. If they are asking their own question as I believe is the case here, then use the first house to signify the querent.

By the way, astrologer Lee Lehman advises against asking the same question using two different divination methods: i.e., horary and tarot. Not sure why, it's just something she mentioned in her book, "The Martial Art of Horary Astrology," which I think is an excellent book.

17
Hi,

I think that taking the 5th house as her (your friend's) partner suits and depicts the existing situation better than the 7th.

Ruler of the 5th is sun and it has separated from a square to mars (ruler of the querent) and is approaching the malefic saturn, indicating a separation has already taken place. As there is no mutual reception between mars and sun, mars is in its domicile (aries) and sun is in cancer, where mars is in fall, I judge that she loves or wants him but she is not equally loved or wanted by him.

Since sun is moving to perfect a conjuction with saturn in leo, where albeit sun is in saturn's term at the point of conjunction, saturn is in detriment thus extra malefic, the guy does not seem to look back anymore.Maybe he is going to run a difficulty related to his 6th and/or 7th house as these inclusive houses are ruled by saturn.Since sun is saturn's dispositor when conjunct, this may indicate he himself will be the primary reason for the prospective hardship.

When we look to the moon as the significator of the whole situation, what I see is that moon is in a mutable sign, whic may indicate the things are subject to a change. Is the change for good or bad?


Well, the moon will make a trine to the mercury in the 5th and another trine to mars which is the querent's significator. This is promising and maybe indicating that the guy will return to your friend in the end. But since moon is in a cadent house that is not suitable for fast progress, the happy end may take some time. My guess is about 8 months as the perfection of trine between moon and mars requires 8 degrees.

wow!

18
Wow, this sounds like a very good reading... very thorough and comprehensive. The timing aspect is an added dimension that will help the client (and the astrologer) determine the accuracy of the prediction.

It will be interesting to see how this situation plays out. I hope we get to find out!

19
Thanks for the time taken and help rendered. I'm really glad that I posted for help here and really appreciate the input you guys have kindly given.

Sigma, you are apt with the interpretation as this is how their relationship plays out. My friend is very emotionally involved with him but he is being inconsistent and detached. My cards too reflect that he is or is about to face some difficulties with authority/money issues. When you said he himself is the primary reason for the prospective hardship, do you mean the problems are mainly self-inflicted? As I'm an empath, I feel a female energy around him but I'm unable to feel their connections as much I wish to. Could be a romantic connection or his mom. For the time frame, 8 mths, do you mean this guy will get back in touch with my friend on the 8th mth and it will take more time for them to resume their relationship? Or, they are able to work things out by the 8th month?
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3/15
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20
Voyager,

Thanks for the recommendation of the book and I'm going to get one as the title itself is very enticing and it is interesting to know why Tarot and horary can't be used together. As doing a card readings and casting out a chart is really a great learning method for me. I'm able to look at the chart and narrow down the learning per se by my card readings. Trying to "validate" the readings and understand the chart. Taking notes of the aspects and little details. Tarots is not that "useful" when it comes to timing and horary seems to work like a magic!
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Ford racing 3
Last edited by honeybee on Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

21
When you said he himself is the primary reason for the prospective hardship, do you mean the problems are mainly self-inflicted?
Yes.
For the time frame, 8 mths, do you mean this guy will get back in touch with my friend on the 8th mth and it will take more time for them to resume their relationship? Or, they are able to work things out by the 8th month?
Warn you! The answer will cost you 50 bucks :brows
Well, actually the answer is entirely linked to the original question.If the querent meant the former, judgement will be according to it; otherwise the latter.Also hope that 8 months do not turn out to be 8 years :-?

And never forget that all I have written so far is only a "reading". Reality may turn out to be different, or I have been misreading it.

Best wishes to you and your friend!

22
Thank you Sigma. For the 50 bucks, I can do an exchange with a tarot reading if you like. :D

I've relate the readings to my friend and got her interested in horary now. lol! Both of us has been talking about horary and learning along the way.

I've a question, do we normally use moon for female and sun for male in horary?

I got a fairly basic decent grasp of astrology using natal chart and this horary learning is a new avenue. Hope as time goes by, I can understand more of the proper basic. Thank you guys and ladies who have helped in this reading. Thank you!
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Ford Europe History
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23
I've another question concerning this.....

For this instance, we use 5th house for the guy and the question, do we still take into consideration the 7th house as the question is concerning relationship?

I've seen some case studies which use 7th house for relationships questions despite if the two person involved is in an actual relationship. So, when dealing with romance/relationship question, do we often have to look into both houses for clues or we can only use either one?

ps.. am I right that business relationships and partnerships fall under 7th house as well?
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GROWING MARIJUANA
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Houses of romance, relationships, etc.

24
I was taught to use the fifth house to signify a love interest or a romance or the lover, and so far, that's worked well for me. If you read Barbara Watters' book, "Horary Astrology and the Judgment of Events" I believe that is what she taught. Lee Lehman, if I remember correctly also uses the fifth house for a lover, as opposed to a marriage or other legal partner. After all, there is a difference in someone being simply your boyfriend of girlfriend instead of your husband or wife.

However, when asking a question about the potential of a romance turning into a marriage or a long-term relationship, then I would use the 7th house.

Try looking at both and see what works best for you.

25
Generally it is Venus that is used for the female and the Sun for a male.

In questions about a love interest between two individuals, potential or otherwise, I would always use the 7th house. It doesn't matter whether you have just met or you are already married. As Tom pointed out a while ago on another thread, the 5th house can show the romance itself but does not relate to the individuals involved. In the same way, the 7th house will show the two people involved in a business partnership while we look to another house to show the business itself.

26
I don?t think a ?suck it and see? approach works with horary. If you want clear charts with unequivocal symbolism then you need to adopt a structured technique that constrains the possibilities of what the chart might mean. What you don?t want is a judgement that means one thing if you refer to the 5th house but something altogether different if you then decide to refer to the 7th.

The overriding consensus of opinion on this would be to take signification from the 7th house; if you want to experiment with that, I think you would be better to spend time trying to understand the reasons why the houses mean what they do - so you can establish a consistent and well reasoned approach. Babara Watters, in her Judgement of Events, does say the 5th house rules love affairs, but so do many traditional authors who would still take signification for the ?other party? involved in the love affair from the 7th house. (Watters doesn?t include any example relationship horaries in that book so it?s not really a good reference for opinions in this matter.) Most of the widely recognised sources state that the ?other person? involved in a one-to-one relationship would be judged from the 7th house, regardless of whether the question is one of marriage or just getting a first date. Lilly?s opinion was that the 7th house is used to judge ?all manner of love questions ? whether man or woman, wives, sweethearts ??

I would also be surprised if Lee Lehman is advocating using the 5th house rather than the 7th in a relationship matter, as that is not my understanding of the way she works. Maybe she has changed her opinions lately, although I have heard comments like ?if it?s just sex it?s 5th house, but if there is an emotional relationship it?s 7th? ? comments like that breed confusion because they don?t set clear boundaries.

Lee Lehman and 5th house

27
Actually, Lee Lehman does advocate using the 5th house for lovers and non-cohabiting relationships. She also advocates using the 7th house for live in lovers and married couples.

(I would refer you to her instructional CD series on relationship horaries: "Learning with Lee.")

When you think about it, using the 5th makes a lot of sense when you consider that in Medevial times, people didn't usually have casual boyfriends and girlfriend relationships as they do now. Each relationship was a prelude to marriage and engagements were considered as binding as a marriage. Therefore it would have made sense to use the 7th house in those circumstances.

But today, people often have several casual or even serious romances that don't lead to marriage. In some cases, there is not even the intent that the relationship lead to marriage and I think that's why the distinction needs to be made between the 5th and 7th house depending on the relationship between the two people in question.