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william lilly, 5th harmonic and the vedic importance of 108

 
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3418
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:18 am    Post subject: william lilly, 5th harmonic and the vedic importance of 108 Reply with quote

i suppose this is a novelty post!

in reading william lillys book 3 of christian astrology, i was surprised to see his use of the 5th harmonic - quintiles and etc and even more bizarre - his use of the 108 aspect! 108 degrees is part of the series of 5th harmonic aspects - 360 divided by 5 = 72... 1/2 of 72 = 36... thus 72 + 36= 108... i know lilly is mostly associated with horary, but i don't know that he used 5th harmonic aspects in any horary.. he does in natal astrology, as witnessed in the example of book 3 christian astrology..

but then reading that rahu-ketu book that theresa hamilton had mentioned on the node thread
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10352, i stumbled onto the section on numerology where it is mentioned 108 is the most sacred number in vedic literature, which would include astrology...

it was interesting to me to see these connections.. i wondered if lilly at some point in time had down some stufying of indian astrology of vedic literature??
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James_M wrote:

Quote:
In reading william lillys book 3 of christian astrology, i was surprised to see his use of the 5th harmonic - quintiles and etc and even more bizarre - his use of the 108 aspect! 108 degrees is part of the series of 5th harmonic aspects - 360 divided by 5 = 72... 1/2 of 72 = 36... thus 72 + 36= 108... i know lilly is mostly associated with horary, but i don't know that he used 5th harmonic aspects in any horary.. he does in natal astrology, as witnessed in the example of book 3 christian astrology..


Its clear Lilly mentioned the new Keplerian aspects. But I am not aware of any chart examples in Christian Astrology where Lilly actually used the new proposed aspects of Kepler in practical astrology.

Mark
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‘’As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity…’’ William Lilly
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3418
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi mark,

book 3, on the chart of the nativity of an english merchant, he lists the directions of the five hylegical places - page beginning on 765.. on page 765 alone, he lists use of the 108 4 times, the 36, once and the 135 - one of the aspects the uranian astrologers quite like - once as well.. he lists the 144, 45, 72 and 135( in number examples on page 766.. it goes on.. but not only are they mentioned in the directions he lists, but in his commentary as well for the 108.. i am trying to find the specific citation, but scanning the pages, have yet to find it.. in the chart for the english merchant, there is a 108 aspect between jupiter and saturn, with saturn ruler of the ascendant..

so, pehaps lilly only uses it in reference to his natal work, and mostly with regard to his use of primary directions... he makes some strong comments on the fact that what might appear in the solar return, and profection chart will be over ruled by the dynamics from the directions.. he is looking for a few of the keys to line up, as opposed to getting a message from one, that is missing in the other, or others..

if i find the time to go back and review his comments more thoroughly and i find his specific comments on the use of the 108 aspect, i will post them on this thread..

here is one i am just seeing now.. page 785 on the topic of his 30th year... "These directions do no afford any significant actions, only venus to D3(108) of mars denotes familiarity with some gentlewomen and with some young soldier; the 45 of mercury to sun portends some difference with a solar man about accounts, or brings intelligence from friends, concerning the goods of lately deceased; "- and on and on it goes..

when i made the post i read in this book a definite use of the 108 for a tool for his astrological conclusions on the chart.. when i find it, i will share it..
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Mark
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Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James_M wrote:
Quote:
book 3, on the chart of the nativity of an english merchant, he lists the directions of the five hylegical places - page beginning on 765.. on page 765 alone, he lists use of the 108 4 times, the 36, once and the 135 - one of the aspects the uranian astrologers quite like - once as well.. he lists the 144, 45, 72 and 135( in number examples on page 766.. it goes on.. but not only are they mentioned in the directions he lists, but in his commentary as well for the 108.. i am trying to find the specific citation, but scanning the pages, have yet to find it.. in the chart for the english merchant, there is a 108 aspect between jupiter and saturn, with saturn ruler of the ascendant..

so, pehaps lilly only uses it in reference to his natal work, and mostly with regard to his use of primary directions... he makes some strong comments on the fact that what might appear in the solar return, and profection chart will be over ruled by the dynamics from the directions.. he is looking for a few of the keys to line up, as opposed to getting a message from one, that is missing in the other, or others..

if i find the time to go back and review his comments more thoroughly and i find his specific comments on the use of the 108 aspect, i will post them on this thread..


Thanks James. I stand corrected! Interesting find this. I noticed the reference to the Keplerian aspects in the index at the end pof Christian astrology Book 3 over a decade ago. I remember raising it here on the forum with Deborah Houlding. But she convinced me it wasn't something Lilly used. Wish i could still find her response. Just shows we all need to do the spade work for ourselves. Coming from a basically horary perspective Deborah Houlding's was essentially correct but it seems your undoubtably also correct to point out that Lilly had started to experiment with Quintiles (72), Bi-Quintiles (144), and Triceciles (108) in natal work.

Discussing traditional sources outside India using Vedic ideas its interesting that the Perso-Arabic astrologer Abu'Mashar seems to have utilised the Navamsa and Dwadasamsa. For various reasons this really intrigues me. Numerologically the number 9 is very magical in many cultures (not just India but Scandanavia and Celtic culture too). The number has certain unique attributes. For example no matter what number you multiply it by the result reduces to 9. Looking at hellenistic astrology Vettius Valens considered planets especially powerful if they were within 40 degrees of 'advancing towards the angles' in diurnal motion.

Mark
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‘’As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity…’’ William Lilly
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i find his use of the 45/135 - hard aspects quite fascinating too.. clearly he was exploring, or receptive to the use of these aspects when it came to directions.. perhaps one rationale that can be given is in directions, there will never be many aspects made, as they move so slow.. as a consequence, incorporating these midpoints to the conjunction and 90 - the 45, or the midpoint to the 90-180 - the 135, he is able to pick up more directions.. same deal with the 5 series aspects..

as for indian astrology and the use of the number 9 - navamsha chart and etc. etc - lilly didn't incorporate 40 degree aspects, but that is interesting what you say about abu mashar.. it is also interesting what you say about valens... thanks!
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