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Theft chart question
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Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 166

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:41 pm    Post subject: Theft chart question Reply with quote

Hello forum

I have a query about a theft chart asking "who stole my money". In this chart the significator of the prime suspect is seen rising and sitting bang on the ascendant. Will this be counted as a positive testimony even if the planet is not peregrine?

Otherwise, there is no separating aspect between this prime suspect and the 2nd house ruler signifying the querent's money. What else can we look at if we want to see if this suspect actually committed the theft.
Many thanks for your kind help


Last edited by Serene on Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 166

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lily says that a peregrine planet is ascending is most likely the thief. But in the chart I have the planet ascending is the not exactly peregrine but is in its face as per essential dignities table (Jupiter at 22 degree Libra). There is also a mutual reception between Jupiter and Venus, rulerof the querent. Can this Jupiter still represent the thief? May be the mutual reception shows the outer superficial relation between the two, the mask of congeniality that they put up before the world ? The ruler of the 2nd house of money is in Pisces, deposited by Jupiter and the depositor of the part of fortune falls in Sagittarius which again is ruled by Jupiter.
Confused
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Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 166

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no other peregrine planet in the chart sitting on the angles. The ruler of the 7th house is same as the ruler of the 2nd house -Mars so it is not particularly helpful.

Can a thief be shown by a planet that is not peregrine? Say if they enjoy a good social status and are generally of decent moral conduct
Confused

Sorry for the multiple posts , I can't seem to edit my original post and getting logged out while editing.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 638

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thief does not have to be angular. Deb Houlding gives thieves the 7th house rulership: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/index_list.html

If Mars rules the 7th it is peregrine. Hope that helps.

What house is Mars in - the 4th? Maybe a family member?
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Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 166

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tanit thanks for your reply . After some questions raised by you and PoF, i have realized that the chart that was put up before in my earlier post was not radical. So I added the correct chart below (this was the 1st chart erected by the querent) and removed the older one to avoid any confusion.

Apologies to all

http://i64.tinypic.com/2zygavc.jpg


Last edited by Serene on Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:09 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 166

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note : Chart reading attempt deleted as the first chart was replaced by the correct chart below

Last edited by Serene on Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:01 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Part of Fortune



Joined: 29 May 2017
Posts: 286

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.
Hi Serenity,

Thanks for the chart! I'm wondering about the Sun because the planet is peregrine in Pisces where Venus and Mars are placed.

Serenity wrote:
There is also a mutual reception between Jupiter and Venus, rulerof the querent. Can this Jupiter still represent the thief? May be the mutual reception shows the outer superficial relation between the two, the mask of congeniality that they put up before the world ? The ruler of the 2nd house of money is in Pisces, deposited by Jupiter and the depositor of the part of fortune falls in Sagittarius which again is ruled by Jupiter.
Confused

I'm not sure about Jupiter. Mutual reception between you and Jupiter is my reason . . . although the Moon is conjunct 12th house so perhaps a lot there is hidden from the public (as things you mentioned above -- and later you said it is a sensitive matter).

When did the incident happen? Separation between Sun and Mars is a difference of 5 deg. 24 min. Could this fit the timing? If the Sun is the culprit, can you think of someone from 11th house? A friend? Someone from your social group? (This might be far-fetched but some government worker? Authority figure?)

5th is a pleasure house -- places where you and friends, associates get together. Interesting that 5th is the other side of 11th. Somewhere I read 5th is message house (ambassadors belong here). I mentioned the Moon earlier and I see so many connections with her including Venus and Mars in 5th, Sun in 4th and Saturn (conjunct Mercury) in 3rd of correspondence -- another message house here, sibling and neighbor are also in 3rd house. . . well that brings me back to Jupiter again.

Serenity, if my reading above is all wrong, could you please tell me your situation by PM? I would like to solve the mystery (just a few more hints would be helpful). Thanks again!

.
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Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 166

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi PoF If I'm right you have been a member of another astro board in past? In my initial days of learning horary I used to visit that forum frequently but later came to know of skyscript which is so much more nicer and peaceful and everyone here is so erudite.i don't post much but whatever little horary I know is courtesy the discussions here

Ok so coming back to the chart, a lot of time has elapsed since this incidence happened. This chart was made during January 2017 (yes !It's that old!), just some days after the theft.

Yes even I wondered why the querent is located in the 5th house. And with so many other planets posited there as well. Moon in 12th may indicate the sadness in the querent or some sort of disillusionment after this incidence. I have to ponder more about the connections you mention here before I post anything or make any further remarks. I do hope after reading the background to this horary in the PM I just sent you can uncover some more facts that have been hidden till now because of lack of details about this chart.

Thanks so much once again for looking and expressing your interest.


Last edited by Serene on Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 166

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear PoF , your comments about the chart got me thinking that perhaps this chart does not relate as well to the situation as the 1st chart made on this subject by the querent. The two charts asked two slightly different questions . 1st chart question was - "who stole my belongings and the money?" But soon after asking this question the belongings were recovered. So a second chart was made asking "who stole the money?" I have a feeling now that this first chart may be a clearer map of what actually happened . In this chart the querent is also rightly placed in house 12th. Moon in house 8th. House 5th positions of the 2nd chart are not sitting well with the whole situation. I am posting the first chart now and will come back and post my reading of it later. Perhaps I should remove the 2nd chart altogether? Sincere apologies for any confusion.
I will also soon post some background on the forum for all to read.

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Part of Fortune



Joined: 29 May 2017
Posts: 286

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Serenity wrote:
Hi PoF If I'm right you have been a member of another astro board in past? In my initial days of learning horary I used to visit that forum frequently but later came to know of skyscript which is so much more nicer and peaceful and everyone here is so erudite.i don't post much but whatever little horary I know is courtesy the discussions here




Yes, I was at Astrodienst forums (and still a “part time” member) before I got here. At first, I was just reading their interesting mundane threads (when members were fighting about Trump, Hillary and Bernie, etc.) But then I discovered “Horary” and got myself Frawley and Tony Louis. I gradually started to participate in analyzing missing items and a few related topics. I certainly agree with you about how nice Skyscript is. I didn’t know anything about its existence for a while and even after I learned about it here, I thought this place was beyond my reach – as you said “erudite” is a good description. I was forced to exit from Astrodienst forum because someone was stalking me and sending me PM’s. This was just over a year ago and that’s when I decided to join here. I guess I should thank my stalker because I learned so much since I got here, for instance we have people like Tanit. Whenever she replies to my post, I learn something (there’s nobody like her at Astrodienst). And many others taught me a lot also: Felipe, moonbright, Astro Marie and the others.

Thanks for the PM. I haven’t opened it yet. I will do that tomorrow but I see you posted another chart -- I will take a look (I’m very slow at analyzing, by the way).

.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 638

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this chart there is emphasis on Mercury peregrine and combust and retro on an angle. To me, Mercury is most commonly seen as a thief, partly because it is a "trickster" planet but also because he/she is a quick-moving and smart sort of planet. Combustion is common in theft too because the perp is hidden and their actions go unseen, even if it occurs out in the open in the 10th. The fact that they are retro shows a repeated problem. The Moon is also emphasizing Mercury by applying to it in fall from the 8th house of loss.

In the other chart there was emphasis on the 5th house and it made me wonder if it was a child. Mercury can also represent young people and the Moon rules the 5th here. Mercury in Capricorn occidental might show someone very thin, maybe even bony, with dark hair (probably black) and hollow eyes. They would be gentle and calm when with the Sun and Jupiter, so you might not suspect them. They are in a feminine sign but with masculine planets so it is difficult to say what their gender is but I would more likely guess male, since the dispositor is in a masculine sign too. The dispositor is with the 2nd house ruler. I am unsure of what to make of the influence of Jupiter but it is usually a helpful influence and they might come to your aid if you approach them about who you think is taking the money. The fact that they do not receive Mercury (in a sign of Jupiter's fall) suggests they would not approve of theft.
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Part of Fortune



Joined: 29 May 2017
Posts: 286

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My first suspicion in the new chart was the Moon as the guilty one, suggesting it was a child who stole the money and belongings. That is because of Cancer at the cusps of 4th (suggests home) and 5th (suggests children). Then I thought maybe that was too quick a conclusion on my part. But then I just saw Tanit's suggestion that Mercury/child is the thief, so I decided to jump in.

This is what I saw: The Moon is detriment in Scorpio and had separated from Mars by 5 units. Somewhere back in Dec. 2016, the Moon contacted Venus by trine then conjunct Jupiter. I'm trying to figure out what dignities and debilities of that relationship bring to the reality. What does this mean to the Moon (if she's indeed the thief) when she is trine Venus and conjunct Jupiter (two beneficial planets!). Is it possible the Moon could do theft? -- It probably will take a while for me to come up with a clear answer, and as I said I'm very slow (beginner's handicaps). Also, if it is a child, can he/she be old enough to be the culprit? The Moon, according to Ptolemy (if I'm not mistaken) represents ages from 0-4, a bit too young. Some say up to 7 years old.

In the first chart (now eradicated) I wondered about the Sun which of course represents children. So many planets were in 5th house, why? Sun was placed in radical 4th, which is 12th from 5th house of children.

Anyway, as I said, it is too early for me to conclude that the Moon (or the Sun from the first chart) is the culprit. If not child then the Moon also represents a woman and a wife (in cancer and 4th house might indicate a housewife).

Venus (in this chart) is in its own terms and approaching trine to Jupiter in Libra. That could indicate that the stolen belongings would be recovered.

Serenity, I have a few question so I will PM you tomorrow.
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Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 166

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Tanit this is a pleasant surprise to receive an answer so early. Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule and having a look. I was kind of stunned by your answer because the person you describe - "Mercury in Capricorn occidental might show someone very thin, maybe even bony, with dark hair (probably black) and hollow eyes. " It's like bingo!!

Certain other sensitive points I will PM to both you and PoF by the end of this day. Again apologies to the other members for not being able to write everything here. In case if anyone wishes I can always share with them the whole story by PM.

Thank you so much Tanit. Your reading is very helpful and much appreciated. Over last one year I have read many of your posts here as an inactive Skyscript member and learnt a lot of horary. Its amazinng how you reply in such detail to so many questions. Along with the other detailed readings by some other members here , they make a great sttudy material for all horary students.
Smile


Last edited by Serene on Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 166

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear PoF
Thank you so much for coming forward to help with your analysis. I am reading your reply now. I am trying to look at the chart and analyse as per your reading and ponder over it. Please allow me some time to reply after considering everything carefully. I am not so quick and bright in horary as you guys
Lala Happy
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Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 166

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi PoF. Yes I was talking about the same forum that you mentioned here. I recall you posting a specific horary question on both these forums. But I don't recall your name there as it was so long ago . That forum has some good astrologers but like you, I have also heard others talk about such incidents like stalking or trolling making people leave that forum for better more peaceful places.

Ok so coming back to the chart, your theory about the moon in scorpio looks plausible. Querent is shown by mars in their 12th house showing undoing through their carelessness,letting others ke their advantage, lamenting the loss , not being able to disclose what happened to anyone back. Mars is afflicted by Neptune showing foggy unclear happenings, distrust, lies.

Moon is via combust in scorpio. At first I was under the impression that the moon must be a co sig. of the querent. Via combusts showing the querent's powerlessness and worry and suspicions. But moon may very well also be showing the lady of the house (a housewife) . In scorpio via combusta this moon becomes very malicious. The recent aspect between the Moon and Mars may indicate the recent theft how moon touched mars. A very interesting thing here us that the moon is sitting loosely (orb if 3 degree) over the antiscion of Venus which is the sig of querent's possessions/money. This antiscion relationship may also pour towards the theft. Moon in scorpio may show the interest of the Moon in Mars which makes them stoop.

Thank you once again for your insights. I will think about whatever you both wrote and get back with more very soon. Smile


Last edited by Serene on Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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