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Homosexual relationship?

 
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Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 206

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:09 am    Post subject: Homosexual relationship? Reply with quote

Hi all. Querent ( my cousin) asked about her love interest -

Is xxx (her guy's name inserted here) in a homosexual relation with yyy (the other guy's name)?

I thought it was an uncommon way of wording the question for here the querent has detached herself from the situation and taken names rather than refering to her guy as 'my boyfriend' or 'my man' which one would generally do.

So I took the 1st house Jupiter as her guy and the 2nd guy as the 7th house ruler Mercury. Here Mercury is sitting exactly on the ascendant. Mercury is retrograde and meets Jupiter by conjunction. Around the same time , Sun (male sexuality) also meets these two planets in the 12th house of secret affairs. Venus is aspecting Mars by antiscia. There is also a transfer of light via moon from Jupiter to Mercury.

Arabic part of homosexuality is at 15 Libra and does nothing significant except forming a sextile with ascendant which I am inclined to ignore.

Other general indicators that can be seen are Mars separating from Uranus and Mercury separating from Neptune, and Venus applying to an opposition with Uranus. Uranus is at critical degrees of Aries and in dignity of Mars and detriment of Venus (female sexuality) but soon to move into Tauras into Venus' domain.

Saturn in the 1st house would also lend a malefic influence and bring disappointment to the querent.

I cannot connect the Moon in 4th house to the whole story and wonder what has to imply?

In conclusion I am inclined to infer that the answer is "yes".
Shocked Confused

HOWEVER , and here's where my doubt lies -- am I correct at all in taking 1-7 axis as the primary sigs of the two men??! The querent is not really detached from the situation in reality. It is only ocassionally that she choses to not be involved in this situation and leaves it in hands of Destiny , extricating herself from the scene (perhaps as a defense mechanism to avoid getting hurt??) It was in one such moods that this question was born.

The other alternative would be to assign house 1 ruler Jupiter to the querent , Mercury to her love interest, and perhaps the radical 11th house ruler to the other guy? Querent knows the other man through her guy and they are not in regular touch and only meet via her boyfriend. Here i am confused if 11th is the right choice for the other guy or should he be 11th from 7th? But we dont know if he really belongs to the 11th house of friendship for her guy or if there's more to their relation?

Querent's own relation with her guy had been going on fine and they recently met with this other guy also present along with them. I guess with these choices of significators the answer would change significantly.

I am curious to know how would others appoint significators in this horary? And what else I am missing? I am looking forward to some kind help here from the forum.

Thanks for reading and looking



Last edited by Serene on Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 206

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more related question in love charts we generally take Sun as the man's co significator and Venus as the co sigificator of the woman. What should be done in charts about same sex relation? I am inclined to still take Sun and Venus with Sun representing the more masculine / active / aggresive partner and Venus symbolizing the more receptive / feminine of the two.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 870

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is interesting because I first read the chart incorrectly by accident, and saw Jupiter as the quesited with Mars and thought it was a clear yes, but then I realized the quesited is Mercury. For someone to be cheating, they are often with another planet and especially so if they are with malefics (malefic influences suggest dishonorable doings in general).

I think the chart is saying that her isolating thoughts (her being in the 12th) are incorrect (Jupiter square Mars). Is there a reason he is in the 3rd? Short distance visit? Is he in the everyday environment, a neighbor? I would give Mars as the other man based not only on house rulership (the quesited's friend) but just based on the fact that it was the first thing that stood out to me and made sense - it is the focus of the chart (Moon in sign of Mars, Sun in sign of Mars, querent with Mars).

Moon with Saturn to me suggests error also, and in the 4th square 2nd(? ish) house Saturn could be a deeply seeded self esteem issue, more so if Saturn is taken as in the 1st (it is barely over 5 degrees from the 2nd). The 2nd in love horaries is often a stump to people, but more often than not, I find it relates to self worth and the 4th is our patterns (here it is a mental/emotional one with the Moon possibly too). Often malefics also show me when someone is wrong about something when they are with the querent in these kinds of questions, and Moon-Saturn can distort information based on negative belief patterns (I have this in my own chart and although we are detached, we can also be overly negative or jump to negative assumptions). The quesited in the 1st also seems to suggest a focus on the querent by the quesited. I would have expected the quesited to be signified with someone else or with a masculine planet (especially Mars) if they were dating a male. To me the chart suggests error by the querent. After the Saturn square, the Moon trines Mercury, so maybe she will realize this on her own. I do agree that the condition of Mercury, especially with Neptune seems problematic though and he could have done something to cause this confusion. Since Mercury is retrograde in Sag on the Ascendant, could this not be cleared up with frank conversation?

I read the chart differently and gave the 1st lord to the querent, since she asked the question. What is their physical descriptions? There is no need to use different rulerships in these kinds of questions. Simply looking at the 7th lord's behavior is generally sufficient. I think putting him on the 1st is confusing. It would be a yes if that is case though.

I would not give the Sun and Venus to the quesited and his potential lover. Here Venus is oriental, out of sect but dignified. Venus oriental is said to be chasing the Sun and is considered more ardent, especially if she is the one dignified (and in a sign Sun does not receive, his fall). Venus oriental and out of sect is also less conventional and more forceful and "masculine" for a female. Sun is peregrine in the 12th in a sign of Mars (a focus on Mars by approaching from its sign?). If we did take an unconventional approach and give the ascendant to the man in question, the placement of Venus and Sun would support possible interest in homosexual relationships rather than with a female. Sun is not with Mars, though, and its focus may not even be romantic. Perhaps their attention is elsewhere but it is not sexual? A general interpretation here would be that she is possibly more ardent than he is and he takes the relationship less seriously than she does. She may basically be chasing him.
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Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 206

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great insights Tanit thank you so much for responding! I will discard my amateur reading for your more learned insights Lala Happy

Saturn in the 1st symbolizing an error on behalf of the querent based on distortion of information also makes a lot of sense. This makes the meaning of moon in fourth aspecting Saturn also clear.

She hasn't yet questioned him directly because as such she has no proofs and probably Neptune symbolizes some form of delusions acting on her mind here .

Thanks for explaining about the oriental venus. Yes she is the one who is more ardent or so it seems on the outside doing the chasing.

And thanks for the reading once again! Your generous sharing of all this knowledge is much appreciated


Last edited by Serene on Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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jventura



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 294
Location: Portugal

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there, just my two cents!

I would give the Asc to your friend that asked the question, the 7th to her boyfriend, and the 5th from the 7th (the radical 11th) to her boyfriend's romances.

So, you friend would be Jupiter, essentially dignified by throne, but in the 12th and combust. The 12th may mean that she is hiding something, or she is asking about things that cannot be seen, which would match the case. The combustion by the Sun (ruler of the radical 9th), may have something to do with pressures about higher studies or other (9th house matters) or 3rd house matters (9th house is the 3rd from the 7th) which would means something like pressure from relatives or neighbours or something like that.

Her boyfriend would be Mercury, which is essentially debilitated, but angular in the Asc. He seems to care a lot about her (in the asc, in jupiter's sign), but he may be subjected to her moods and behaviors. He is "in her hands".

The other guy (romance one) would be Venus in the 11th (or the 5th from the 7th). Venus is very strong in her own sign and in a good house. It matches the "feminine", soft spoken and pleasantness of the guy.

I see no aspects from Mercury to Venus, or anything that could connect Mercury and Venus, so I would say that they don't have a relationship.

I would interpret the Mars Jupiter application as your friend can have an argument (or inner battle) about things regarding their romance (or children?) as Mars rules her 5th house.

Moon applying to a square of Saturn can also suggest some quarrels on topics of the 2th and 3rd houses (or 8th/9th from the 7th).

Hope it all makes sense... Very Happy
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Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 206

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi jventura thanks for your readings, much appreciated. So you also see no affair between the two men! Very Happy

Yes Venus as the 2nd guy makes a lot of sense considering the physical descriptors. From what I know he cares more but doesn't show it outwardly.

Moon square Saturn you said suggests some quarrel over financial matter.they were recently having some issue like that recently (andi don't know.if it's resolved yet).

Mars Jupiter application as her inner battle makes sense or even some sort of cold war between them for she had been ignoring him lately.
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Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 206

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello to all of you

Do you think we can also solve this horary through "whether the rumor is true" methodology? I'm not sure if this can be worked out like that still I gave it a go . I listed out the points i found from Lee Lehman's book Martial Arts of Horary Astrology and checked them all one by one to see what they have to tell

1. The rumor is true if the ruler of the Ascendant, the Moon, or the Moon's dispositor (or better, the majority of them) are fixed, not cadent, and in good aspect to the benefics or the Sun.
In this chart, the ascendant ruler and moon's depositor are in mutable signs and moon in cardinal sign. 2 out of these three are in cadent houses. So rumor is false.

2. If those three are cadent and afflicted by malefic, the rumor is false whether they are in good zodiacal condition or not.
In this chart, mars and jupiter are in in cadent houses. Moon is afflicted by Saturn and Jupiter is combust. So rumor false.

3. The rumor is true if all four angles are fixed, the Moon and Mercury are fixed, and they in turn are separating from the malefic and applying to angular benefic.
Here the angles are mutable, Moon cardinal, Mercury mutable. Moon is applying to malefic Saturn. So rumor false.

4. If the MC/IC axis is fixed, and the Moon rules either angle, then the rumor is true.
Here MC IC mutable . So rumor false.

5. If the benefics are in the 1st, but the Moon unfortunate, the rumor is false and misleading.
Does not apply since no benefics in first.

6. Mercury retrograde or debilitated shows a false rumor, as does the affliction of the planet to which the Moon or Mercury next applies.
In this chart , mercury is retro. Moon next applies to Saturn. Mercury applies to afflicted moon. Rumor false.

7. The Ruler of the Ascendant or the Moon under Beams brings secrecy to the matter.
In this chart, Jupiter is combust showing secrecy.

8. The Moon either Void of Course or in hard aspect to Mercury shows the rumor to be either false, or of no import.
In this chart, Moon trine Mercury so rumor may be true.

9. The Moon in the 1st, 3rd, 10th, or 11th, separating from an easy aspect to any planet and applying by an easy aspect to the Ruler of the Ascendant argues that the rumor is true.
Does not apply. So rumor may be false.

10. The Moon square or opposite Mercury, neither in easy aspect to the Ascendant argues that the rumor is true.
Does not apply. So rumor may be false.

11. If the Ruler of the 6th, 8th, or 12th House is in the 1st House, or afflicting the Ruler of the Ascendant; or Mars or Saturn retrograde and in the 1st house, or in hard aspect to either the ascending degree or the Ruler of the Ascendant; then the Querent will receive damage or prejudice from the news heard.
In this chart, Saturn in first house though not retrograde. Ruler of 12th house Mars is in hard aspect to Asc ruler Jupiter.So querent will be negatively prejudiced from the rumor.



So of all these points only one or two show a testimony of the rumor being true while all others support the testimony of the rumor being false. So this method is also giving the same results as Tanit and Jventura arrived at.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 870

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the main themes of Lilly is that someone is in the wrong when with malefic indicators, as shown in this methodology also, which is basically what I was saying regarding the querent being in the wrong.
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Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 206

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Tanit actually your reading was bang on even the portion where you wrote about Neptune influence and commented that he must have done something himself to cause confusion. After checking this rumor true methodology I noticed how you had described the Saturn in the first and the square as an affliction to the mental state of the querent showing that what they believed was wrong
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