Hi guys!!!!!!!!!!!

Hope everyone is doing well. I am new to this forum. I hope that you will please help. I just got my book on horary and I am trying to interpret the horary chart that I drew up a few weeks ago. The past few weeks have been difficult. They have made an announcement at work and in fact I will eventually have to report to more people as I?d suspected. I am not happy about this, but I am taking a wait and see approach. It is complex and perplexing.

All of this has made me realize that I?ve based my life far too much on my career. Success in my career has almost been my sole source of happiness over the past four years and while it should be a stimulating factor, I?ve come to realize it shouldn?t be the only factor in my life. I need to diversify into different areas so to speak and look to other sources for real happiness.

Anyway, since I?m a beginner in astrology and especially horary, I?d appreciate some help with interpreting the chart. I had drawn up a chart a few weeks ago, but I really had a hard time figuring out whether the moon was VOC or not in that chart. And since circumstances have changed since then, I drew up a new horary chart yesterday and clarified the questions in my head. I hope this second chart is ok and that it?s ok if I ask about two areas of life rather than focusing on one ? I am a Gemini!

1 July 2005
11:30 pm
Antwerp, Belgium
Chart Ascendant: Aquarius
House System: Regiomontanus


My questions about work are:

1. Will I be stripped of my responsibilities and fired?
2. Is there more growth opportunity for me at this company?


My questions about a love relationship:

1. Is this the man I will find true love and happiness with?
2. If so, when will the relationship start?
3. If not, when will there be a happy relationship for me?


This chart appears radical to me and it has been set up using the Regiomontanus house system. The moon is not VOC and the moon is nearly conjunct my natal moon. Mercury and Venus are conjunct my natal Ascendant with an orb of 2 degrees. True Node in the chart is exactly conjunct my natal MC and the vertex is exactly conjunct my True Node. Also, the planetary hour of Mercury seems to fit with the chart since I am a Gemini.

My primary significator is Saturn, the ruler of the Ascendant, and my co-significator is Mars, which is placed in the 1st house. Because Neptune and Uranus are newly discovered planets, they are normally not used in horary and thus cannot be considered my other co-significators even though they are in the 1st house. So we have the greater and lesser malefics representing me. Saturn is in its detriment in Cancer and Mars is in its own sign of Aries.

My career is represented by Jupiter, the ruler of the MC.

We look to Saturn, Mars, and Jupiter to determine the future course of my career.

It appears there is a mutual reception between my primary significator, Saturn, and Jupiter, the ruler of the MC, since Saturn is exalted in Libra and Jupiter is exalted in Cancer. I am not sure whether my interpretation of mutual reception is correct? If it is, then according to Bonatus, ?reception abates all malice.?

POF is in the 1st house and the dispositor of fortune is Mars, which is also in the 1st house. Because POF is in Aries, ?he neither gets nor loses.? POF is trine Venus and opposite Jupiter.

Mars and Jupiter have just been in opposition, showing a potential separation. I am not sure whether the following interpretation is correct. It appears that translation of light comes into play favorably since Mercury and Venus are both applying towards a sextile with Jupiter, ruler of the MC.

Saturn and Jupiter are not in aspect at the moment, but once Saturn enters Leo, they will be applying towards a sextile, although this is never really a perfect sextile. The interesting thing here is that Mercury will be retrograde in July and thus will be traveling backwards from 20 degrees Leo to 8 degrees Leo. During this time, it forms a sextile to Jupiter and eventually comes very close to a conjunction with Saturn. I wonder if this qualifies as translation of light??

Saturn is in a cadent house, while Jupiter and Mars are angular.

Could Saturn still technically be considered Cazimi as it is 18 degrees from the Sun?

Jupiter is within 2 degrees orb of being in its own term at 11 degrees in Jupiter??

Jupiter is conjunct Vindemiatrix, which is symbolic of widowhood, loss, depression, witch hunts, mysticism, and the occult.

The MC is within 1 degree orb of conjunction with Antares, which symbolizes honors & riches but sudden loss. This is a star that is ?good for war.?

Mars is within 1 degree orb of conjunction with Alpheratz, which symbolizes honor, wealth, good fortune, possible violent death, and suicide.

As for the relationship ?

The guy in question is signified by the Sun, which is in a cadent house. Jupiter is a co-significator as well since it is in the 7th house, as is the Moon, according to the Chaldean order.

The Sun is applying towards a square with Mars, suggesting conflict. However, it appears Saturn would be able to collect their lights. Saturn is kind of in a state of limbo. It could be considered cazimi in relation to the Sun while at the same time, it would be able to form an out of sign trine with Mars. Is this observation correct?!

If Saturn could be considered cazimi in relation to the Sun, then the Sun and Saturn will be conjunct once they enter Leo, which means that there is the potential for a relationship!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! However, there is interference here because of the square from Mars to the Sun.

The Moon is exalted in Taurus, applying towards a sextile with Saturn.

Once Saturn enters Leo, it will apply towards a sextile with Jupiter.


Well, I would really appreciate it if you guys could please let me know whether I am on the right track. The outcome looks pretty mixed to me!!!!!!!! How should I judge this? Is my analysis correct?

This is the chart I drew up:

http://www.astro.com/cgi/showgif.cgi?la ... res=90&va=


Thanks for all your help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I really appreciate this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

love, love, love to you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

befube

Sorry about this, the other chart expired. Here's another one.

http://www.astro.com/cgi/showgif.cgi?la ... res=90&va=

Thanks so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Befube

I really don~t know if we can give you any advice (even the three mage, deb, sue and tom ) because I never saw mixing two so different questions...

Maybe the chart will work for you, but i would advise you to, in the future, keep things simple, so you can have a more straightforward answer... I tried to imagine some answer, but there is too much confusion in trying to answer one question at a time, not even god can answer two :-)

Hi befube,

I would agree with Yuzuru that it is best to ask a clear and direct question on an issue that is uppermost in your mind rather than a series of questions that are not necessarily related to each other. Unclear questions lead to an unclear chart.

Just a couple of points on what you have written. I am not sure why you see Mars as your co-significator. The co-significator for the querent is generally the Moon. Mars is not in the 1st house but in the 2nd because it is within 5 deg of the house cusp.

A planet is cazimi, in the heart of the Sun, when it is within 17 minutes of the Sun, not 18 degrees. A planet is under the Sun's beams when it is within 17 deg. Saturn is not any of these in your chart.

I also wouldn't concentrate too much on the fixed stars unless they are particularly relevant to you. It just confuses things unnecessarily, particularly when you are learning. Personally, I don't really use them but I seem to recall Bernadette Brady saying that she uses very tight orbs when looking at fixed stars, no more than half a degree.

Cheers
Sue

Hi Yuzuru and Sue,

Thank you so much for the replies. I am going to try again with another chart now.

with gratitude and love to you both!!!!!!!!

befube

Saturn in the Sixth house of Physical Well Being and servants in detriment, is not looking to happy. Jupiter Ruler of the 10th is on eighth house cusp, possible end if not major change in your career??? and Moon seems perfectly valid to me, it is changing houses, but not signs. Looks as though family and community are gaining importance to you , also moon will shortly be sextile Saturn, which may help.

Whether you look to the 7th or the 5th for romance and love in your life, both representative planets are in the sixth house with your significator... The Sun, significator of the 7th is approaching Saturn and Mercury, significator of the fifth is on the 7th house cusp.

well not certain how well I've enterpreted any of that, but would love to hear what happens in your life in the next few motnhs.

Granny

Hi Tom,

The weather was glorious this holiday weekend in the eastern part of the US and I was home alone with no one to share the holiday with so I pulled out my old copies of The Traditional Astrologer Magazine, poured myself a cold drink and retired to the backyard where I indulged in my favorite past time.

Don't you go overdoing it now Tom. Sounds rough. Great job with the delineation. I have been thinking about my statement above regarding doing a chart with more than one question. I do agree that it is possible and I know that Lilly did it. But for me it isn't so much whether it is possible to delineate a chart like this but whether we should be using horary in this manner. The examples you gave above appear to me to involve a number of questions that are interrelated so I see it as appropriate that the chart will answer these questions. There are also times when seemingly unrelated questions are actually tied in together, e.g. asking questions about work and relationship when you are having an affair with the boss. But if we are asking a series of questions that are unrelated can we really be asking in a manner that is required of a clear chart? I am speaking hypothetically here because I am not suggesting for a minute that the career and love life of befube are not of equal importance. But I have to wonder whether the chart, or the question, can lose some of its meaning or clarity if we ask about more than one area of our life at a time. I think it becomes too easy to have the attitude of asking a question and then throwing in another question while we are at it.

Cheers
Sue

Don't you go overdoing it now Tom.

I never do

Your questions are good ones, and I've thought about them as well. It's one thing to ask, "Where is my extra marital relationship headed and will I get caught?" And quite another to ask, "Will I lose my job and is my sister pregnant?" I agree there should be a common thread.

Or should there? If both questions are important, why do they have to have a common thread other than their importance to the querent? Yes, if the querent is using horary for a grab bag of information, I agree that it won't work. But it won't work because the questions, or at least some of them, don't qualify as sincere. That would be true if there was only one question, as well.

So from this point of view, if a person sincerely asks more than one question, I don't have a problem with setting the chart and taking the questions one at a time as though they were individual questions. Suppose for example you are a busy horary astrologer taking questions via e-mail. Question A comes in, you set the chart and it's quick and easy. You say "No." Then what? You open your next e-mail and set the chart? Let's face it - the chart hasn't changed. You're using the same chart as you did for the previous question. The questions are unrelated, but you answer both of them from the same chart. What is different from our scenario is that two individuals, rather than one, asked the questions. Does that make a difference?

Look at Lilly. His diaries tell us he saw clients for about 15-20 minutes at a time. Surely, some of the sometimes minor adjustments he made, if in fact he made them, weren't even necessary. Yes, if the ASC changed from one client to the next, that would be significant, but if we start the day with 2 Taurus on the ASC, it will be a few hours before Venus stops being the significator of the querent, and even the Moon doesn't move that much in two hours.

There is another way to approach this, and if I were dealing with our new friend on a personal rather than public basis, I would have done that. What is the real question? Suppose, and this is purely hypothetical, befube came to me and asked those questions. Let's further assume I discover through a gentle probing that she was genuinely afraid of losing her job, and her boyfriend didn't seem to be all that interested or maybe even hinting at ending the relationship. Yes, she really wants to know the answer to those two questions, but isn't there something else going on here? Maybe the real question is, "Why is my life such a mess right now?" Or "My employer wants to get rid of me; my boyfriend wants to get rid of me, and the cat ran away. Why am I having such a difficult time, and will it end soon?" Hypothetically again, that might be a bit closer to what she wants to know. We can't do that online in an educational forum such as this.

I'm like you. I think answering a series of questions can be done. But in my case, the fact that Lilly could do it, doesn't mean I can do it. I tried my hand at it, and I feel I came up short partly because I ran into a bit of a wall with the, "Well, if this doesn't work out, when will something work out for me?" I wasn't sure how to deal with that because it seemed so deterministic. People have difficult periods with their relationships, but unless at some level they don't want a permanent relationship, or unless they are truly repulsive, it doesn't last forever. But answering the question: "WHEN?" doesn't solve the problem because it implies the querent just has to sit around and wait for a knock on the door. Again, this last is not addressed to befube. This is purely hypothetical.

I recall a woman a long time ago, who was forever asking me: "When will I meet someone? When will I find a good man?" And I always felt like shaking her and screaming YOU HAVE TO GET OUT OF THE HOUSE FIRST!!! Prince Charming wasn't making the rounds knocking on doors in her neighborhood the last time Jupiter hit her Venus, but he may have been at the local singles group meeting, or church, or beach, or bookstore. And if he was, he probably went home with the other lady who had transiting Jupiter trine her Venus.

My other "favorite" person in this regard simply thought she was better than everyone she met. There was always something wrong with anyone she encountered. Well, except for me and one or two other guys, there will always be something less than perfect, and all the horaries in the world aren't going to land you a mate unless you change your attitude. So stop asking horary questions, and start learning how to relate. (PS she wasn't perfect either).

So I sort of ducked that question since I didn't want it to sound like a sealed fate, if I couldn't find anything. NOTE TO ALL QUERENTS: Just because an astrologer can't find it, doesn't mean it isn't there. No one is perfect. I like John's remark in his new book:

"Nor is there any reason why someone should not ask the same question more than once. Doctors can give second opinions; so can astrologers. Truth is a sturdy beast; it does not run away if more than one person looks at it."

So now after quoting John, I'll also quote him on something relevant to befube's questions;

"Supplementary questions are fine: "When will I marry?" Will I have children. Will he get along with my family? Will he have a good job?" These can all be judged from the same chart. But it is best to discourage questions on different issues: "When will I marry? When will I get a better job? Where is the cat?"

But then he adds:

Sometimes querents will have two or three issues weighing on them, so , if necessary these questions can be answered from the same chart. But if asking of many unrelated questions suggests that none of them is the real issue, it is better to ask the querent to reflect on what is most important and ask that."

I think that's good advice.. And now with the question more muddled than ever, I shall go take it easy on myself -- again.

Best

Tom

Hi Tom

Just wanted to say I also think you did a great job on the delineation, thank you very much for illustrating it for the likes of me. I also agree with what you say above in the follow up:

If both questions are important, why do they have to have a common thread other than their importance to the querent? Yes, if the querent is using horary for a grab bag of information, I agree that it won't work. But it won't work because the questions, or at least some of them, don't qualify as sincere. That would be true if there was only one question, as well.

As ever, it depends on the querent's ernestness in asking the questions. As you note, if they are all on the querent's mind, then they should also be in the chart. Just takes knowledge, perseverance (and no small talent ) to work through them in an orderly manner.

A good job, well done

I shall go take it easy on myself -- again.

You deserve it!

I learned (and it's so far proved true) that generally, when we ask the same question more than once (because we didn't like the first answer) the other charts give the same answer, or are not "radical."

However, there are situations that by their very nature are ephemeral and in those situations asking a question more than once is not "against the rules" so to speak.

For example, if you are selling a house, you might ask "will my house sell" and get a no. A few weeks or months later you might ask the same question and get a yes.

But generally it's best to wait for a reasonable period of time or to see if circumstances change before asking the same question.

Which brings me to the next point. I've read that horaries are only "good" for three months. What is your experience with this?

The second issue is asking multiple questions from the chart: I can see where this might be entirely appropriate if the issues are related: for example, "If I have an affair with my boss will I lose my job?"

Or, "Will I find the man of my dreams and if so, will it last?"