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anonymous suicide

 
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3479
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:48 pm    Post subject: anonymous suicide Reply with quote

this is someone who i knew, but not that well.. i do not have exact data for either their birth or death - other then the days.. i have used a noon birth time - the moon is traveling approx 13 degrees on this date - so approx 6 degrees can be added or subtracted off the moon at 4 cap in the chart depending on what time of the day they were born..

i was interested in understanding the astrology better to this. it seems like there are a few distinct astrological signatures at work in the transits.. specifically - transit saturn possibly conjunct natal moon... transit moon - possibly conjunct natal saturn.. transit pluto close to conjunct natal mars... transit mercury close to square natal pluto. transit uranus close to natal mercury.. there are some sun and venus transits that are squaring back to natal sun and venus as well...

in the solar arc data - the fairly close 45 between jupiter and mars natally is close to conjunct the same planets by solar arc.. this is the 47th year, but the planets have moved between 45-46 degrees, or a bit less then 1 degree per year over the course of 47 years. the solar arc saturn is at 7 cancer, so may be involved with the natal moon by opposition or not..

there is not much to say about the astro data given i don't have an accurate time for either the birth or death..

i can say the person at one time in their life suffered from substance abuse, but also led a very productive creative life in fashion very recently, while having been involved in sports earlier in their life.. they ran a successful business right into the time of this which as a consequence - came as a shock to a number of people in the local community where i live..

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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 770

Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first thing I did was look for his natal Mars, and transiting Pluto is exactly conjunct it in 20 degrees Capricorn.

I need to look at the chart a lot more, as it will be a lot more complicated and precise, but that was just from a quick glance. Suicide always seems to be about Mars.

As you say, you really need to know the time of birth because the Moon and chart angle tell you about the condition of Mars, and somebody else with different Moon and chart angles could manifest Mars completely differently, and Mars is linked with musicians especially vocalists, as well as those who do energetic things. I also think Mars could be linked with inner visualisations such as great artists have. A good Mars is an antidote to depression. Everything depends on what is happening to Mars in the chart both by natal aspects and transits. Even the Pluto transit to Mars could be wonderful, depending on modifiers to the transit and natal aspects to Mars.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 859

Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is sad to hear.

Is this person a woman? I might wonder if Pisces was rising and Venus in the 1st given some of the information posted and what would be ruling the protected year. They wouldn't necessarily need to be a woman for that placement but I might expect that to be the case. Yes, it is interesting if transit Moon and Saturn were in partile or close conjunction during the time of death. I would wager they were in a Saturn profection year when this happened or that Saturn is in their 12th. If in their 47th year, that would place emphasis on the 12th house profection and it could be that either Saturn ruled that house or Saturn was there. Personally, I would wonder if it ruled their 12th. I could be wrong, though. Just by enduring a 12th house profection while dealing with difficult Saturn influences might have been quite difficult.

I think their creativity is noted especially by their Venus exalted in Pisces and Jupiter conjunct Neptune. Again, this is another person with Venus in hard aspect with Pluto. Sometimes this can show extreme heartbreak and this might have contributed. Was their fashion of a darker style?

I went through a Saturn profection not long ago while Saturn was transiting my Moon and that was not a fun year on an emotional level.

I know you don't use planetary sect, but my guess is their chart was a night chart, which would exacerbate Saturn conjunct Algol in a melancholic sign (did they hang themself?). They have four planets in melancholic signs: Mercury, Mars, Moon and Saturn, which might increase the likelihood of depression.

They have a lot of active transits. Uranus is also partile Mercury, which can upset the emotional state and the mind. I have been dealing with that one myself.
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alex62



Joined: 26 Aug 2014
Posts: 96
Location: UK , Cardiff

Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Usually in mortal cases, heavy aspects must be seen on important planets in the natal.
The problem is inaccurate hour of birth ...

Therefore, two planets are directly attacked. Mars (Sun in Aries) and Mercury (Moon in Virgo).
These are two very important planets for the person. So the predisposition to such a finish really exists.

Although it probably should be Asc. in Virgo or Scorpio or Aries ... but if it is Asc. in Virgo there is a very small difference between murder and suicide ???
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3479
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for everyone's comments...

fleur - i have mars within the same degree, and am also a aries (with scorpio rising). as you note the pluto transit to mars is going to effect everyone differently, but this stood out to me as well..

tanit - this is a mans chart.. sorry, i didn't articulate that in my post. - yes venus opp pluto and perhaps that really does add to the creativity spark.. as for the type of fashion - they ran a store that was known for funky cool styles which was a bit of an anomaly in the community here.. not sure if it was darker.. i do use sect, but i might not use it as much or the same way as others.. those are good observations about the number of earth planets contributing to a greater likelihood of melancholic temperament... hard to know without an accurate birth time and i do not know the details regarding your question on how they died..

alex - i agree with you on the importance of heavy aspects on important planets in the natal.. however, this can happen in a lot of peoples charts and nothing happens of such a drastic nature.. perhaps temperament is a part of it, but either way - you are correct - it would help to have a time for more clarity...

it might also be cancer rising with the moon being transited by saturn - but hard to know.. that would alter the birth time to being a day as opposed to night chart which tanit was suggesting.

on a related note, i am reading an interesting book on mercury that i mentioned recently in a previous thread on temperament.. according to the author the location of the inferior conjunctions and what signs the one prior to and after one is born - have some important bearing on a person.. in this persons chart - the inferior conjunction with mercury happened a few days after he was born - april 19th - at 29 aries 15...

essentially what the author of the book does is makes a special consideration if one is born very close to, or on an inferior conjunction and treats that as the one prior to birth which a person starts with.. he pays attention to the sign position by element and the house location of where these 2 inferior conjunctions land in the persons chart.. so, in this persons case the first one - is 29 aries... i don't completely understand how the author uses this data yet, as i am only in the early part of the book, but he seems to have some interesting thoughts on the mercury cycle that i am eager to understand better.. i am sorry i can't provide more insight.. book is called hermetica triptycha by gary p caton...
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 859

Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fleur might be right that Pluto conjunct Mars is significant because at the same time transit Venus is opposite natal Mars and transit Pluto, and transit Neptune is close to their natal Venus opposite natal Pluto. I think a painful romantic disappointment could have been at the heart of it, personally, and the Saturn influences likely fed into that a great deal. Just overall they had a very difficult time with their transits and all at once.

Often transit Neptune conjunct Venus can signal meeting a soulmate, or someone you believe is a soulmate but it can also often lead to disappointment or unrequited feelings. I have never had that transit and can imagine it must be a beautiful experience that could also turn ugly with Pluto involved.
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