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Skyscript Astrology Forum

Which is better, vedic or western?

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Joined: 22 May 2017
Posts: 163
Location: Canada

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:40 pm    Post subject: Which is better, vedic or western? Reply with quote

(Please note: This discussion has been moved to Philosophy and Science from the Mundane Section).

...when it comes to accuracy of predictions, especially in mundane matters.

Shouldn't both systems predict the same outcomes, accurately, if they were really that accurate at all. We know the zodiacs are different, but astrology is astrology.

Some western astrologers claim that, due to a lack of publicly known, accurate birth times, that predicting the outcome of political leaders is trecherous. James_M cites that the real birth time of politicians like Benjamin Netenyahu and Hillary Clinton are typically not known and therefore, making predictions based on speculative charts is not easy or impossible. Maybe Clinton and Netenyahu use astrologers beyond the scenes and therefore, withhold their birth times from us, just like Hitler once used astrology to time his military attacks?

That said, I met a genuine, young vedic astrologer back in 2003 who made a prediction about my own mother, and her eventual demise, even though the birth time was suspect and her western natal chart had no "smoking gun aspects" pointing out her demise. So, why is it that Vedic astrologers can make accurate predictions, even with faulty birth times. and western astrologers cannot, even with verifiable birth times.

Further to this, will Vedic astrology eventually lose its prominence in Indian society, as the battle between fate versus free will, ramps up, and as India becomes a more economically properous nation. Some experts predict China and India will become the world's number one and two economies, by 2042, overtaking the United States of America, Japan, and some European countries.

Vedic astrology appears to thrive in countries where there are impoverished economic conditions, but also, in patriarchal societies where the male is perceived as "top dog" and women are there to serve men, serve them dinner, etc.

Therefore, is vedic astrology essentially a "cheerleader' for male Indian supremacy over women?

Meanwhile, concepts like arranged marriages are still very much in vogue in Indian society and if Indians wish to evolve, economically, they may have to curtail such out-dated activities, or else, North Americans may not do future business with you? An arranged marriage can often feature a teenaged young woman being assigned to an adult Indian male, by her parents or family, which is akin to child slavery.

In any event, even though I am of "Asian" descent, I am opposed to adult men marrying teenaged brides, or men sleeping with teenagers, as it seems like a backwards form of slavery and servitude that is detrimental to women, generally, including Indian women.

Although very interesting, vedic astrology cannot appeal to me, as it does a roaring business with the arranged marriage business, and therefore, I cannot support, either, just like I cannot buy or wear clothes made in Asian sweatshops by underaged children. And, it has to be ethically right, and not just about the money.

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Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

not only are the systems different, but the priorities are different...

i think we can see this inside of each system independently as well... not all western astrologers for example - agree on the one way to interpret a chart.. the choices are quite infinite where one wants to put the emphasis and etc... someone says this is an example of talent for example, and someone else sees it completely differently! that is just the way it is..

as for greater accuracy of predictions off vedic, i haven't seen that myself... it seems just as hit and miss and perhaps it is better explained by the specific astrologer who is doing the prediction, then the system itself... that is my guess..

i think 20th century western astrology got away from making predictions and focused on psychology, much to the demise of those who wanted a return to a more predictive based astrology... of course this changed in the late part of the 20th century with the re-introduction of william lillys work and a greater interest in translating the many manuscripts that were astrological in content that had been discovered and hadn't been translated yet.. hence - project hindsight and a resurgence in an interest in ''traditional astrology''...

at the same time, vedic seems to have always been more focused on predictions as i understand it..

i have never had my chart read by someone who does vedic.. i was following one fellow who i enjoyed - into vedic - i used to call it indian back in the 70's or 80's before someone told me to call it vedic) - and this fellow does vedic, but with the western zodiac! apparently this happens a good bit too...

as far as astrologers working on arranged marriages... this is a cultural thing.. it is easy for us to impose our ethnocentric views on another culture and think we know what is best, but i would prefer to not get involved in that! i agree - marriages with teens and old men is disturbing and i am not down with that either, but without living in a different culture, i tend to recognize how the values i have are often connected to the culture i live and grew up in.. getting outside of my own cultural values is difficult..

as i said previously, i have never seen any mundane astrology by a vedic astrologer... maybe they do it, but i haven't seen it... i know you can take a public - typically a political person - and do an individual chart for them.. i suppose some people will call this mundane astrology as it involves a public figure - like trump, or clinton, or netanyahu - but i look at that separately from the idea of considering the fate of a nation - although their is a clear connection... this must have been the thinking in the past where the king or queens chart had great bearing on the fate of a nation.. i don't know that it is the same anymore...

when i think of mundane astrology, i am mostly thinking of ingress, eclipse charts based on the location - typically the capital of a country where the political powers are making important decisions on the direction there country will go in... i haven't had too much luck working with some country charts given the fact there are too many charts to choose from - the usa being a prime example of this.. and yet, one can do ingress or eclipse charts to washington and may, or may not get some results off them..

i think both systems ( vedic and western) have merits and perhaps at some point they might have been more connected then we presently imagine..

thanks for taking the time to move this over to the philosophy section sab.. i appreciate that.. and with regard to the idea of saturn - structure... i was referring to the structure here at skyscript that has a number of different forums where the idea is to discuss the topic in an area related to the forum and specifically to the nature of the thread.. i felt we were no longer talking about israel when we engaged in this new conversation, that i am happy to engage in with you here.. cheers james
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Joined: 22 May 2017
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The vedic community appears to be like the Western one, in that they all have different opinions about the future, especially in mundane matters?

The vedic zodiac is also 25 degrees different than the Western tropical zodiac, so BIG difference, there ! They (vedic) use "dasas" when making predictions, plus asteroids like ratu and katu that we in western astrology do not use

Regarding predictions, it must be said that several big name vedic stars are in disagreement with the overall fate of Donald Trump, for example. It is, perhaps, a battle between the "hawks" and the "doves?"

One named Kumar, of New York City, predicts an improvement in the affairs of Donald Trump, starting in October of 2018, and a period of prosperity for the United States, a prominent role, a cabinet role, for Trump's daughter, Ivanka, which she will "do well," while Mike Pence will also play a prominent role, he predicts, perhaps overseeing the military. An important treaty will be signed by Trump, he predicts, and the US Navy will be beefed up. However,, no mention of Trump's impeachment or demise as leader ?

However, another vedic astrologer named Gurmeet Singh from Hollywood, CA, paints a much darker picture, a rather dire set of predictions about the United States, predicting Trumps impeachment by 2019, a war with North Korea, a stock market crash, or all three.

"These will be dangerous times after June 2019, when President Trump will find it difficult to complete his first Term. Things will get worse in 2019, and the voters will penalize the Republican party in 2020 Presidential Election. President Trump will either face impeachment or resign between June 2019 and April 2020. Vice President Mike Pence or House Speaker Paul Ryan will replace him. This is the most important prediction."

Singh also makes a very interesting observation about the current Mueller inquiry and the investigation into Russian interferance into the past U.S. election and possibly, Donald Trump and or his cronies. He says that Mueller has something culpable or damaging about Trump "that he is not revealing at this time" and if even Trump dismisses or fires Mueller, the damage will be so overwhelming that Trump will be either forced to step down or face severe public lack of confidence in his ability to govern.

However, Mr Singh seems to have a real axe to grind about Trump, saying that his supporters are "mostly white, older, rural people, as well as the Ku Klux Klan." LOL

White rural folk, yes, I can see, but the KKK ? No !

He goes on to say that Donald Trump's base of supporters is what is keeping him in power and is not the Republican base, which is a widely acknowledged fact. He further encourages Trump to broker friendly ties with the Democrats, as so to mitigate or stall the impeachment process, probably pretty good advice.

However, I can't see Paul Ryan replacing Trump, if Trump gets impeached. It seems more likely that Mike Pence will get the nod, since he is Vice President, and historically, that is who replaces the President who cannot finish his term?

So, what do you make of that, James?
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