Paul,

Thanks for the suggestion regarding books and material for study.


Now I come to the second part.

If I have merely stopped at describing a planet as being strong or weak and negative or positive. It tells my inability to do any kind of cold or blind reading.


I will try to explain it.


Of two people born at a same time, place or date. What makes them different or how there chart act differently.

It is because of their number in the order of the siblings if any, parents (if they are dependent on them), associates (if they are grown up), bosses, and close friends.

The chart maybe constant for two persons but there can not be agreement between parents, number in the siblings, associates, bosses or close friends.

There is a system where I can check in seconds the influence of a close associate.


Now the second problem is the 'free will'. Some will argue that our free will is dependent upon those attitudes and habits which we are unable to change.


Take the example of 'Sun'. If the Sun is negative. We need to see what Sun represents in the chart. That is not possible if we don't discuss it with the client.

In general terms. Sun represents father, elder brother, authorities, and other things.

Now a negative Sun means either this person has negative experience of a father. or his father got into problems gradually after the birth of this person. It could also mean that if person decided to 'respect' his father. His father start having problems of his own (seemingly not caused by his Son).

In view of the above, how can I hit on any single statement if I am doing a blind reading.

Sun also represents the fame or otherwise of a person. Negative Sun also shows that a person can still achieve fame if he adopts those point of views, which are against the 'norms' of that time, he can still be famous (or infamy) of he starts arguing or questioning the authorities.

Now, there is other problem. If that person has a parent or a very close associate whose chart is supporting his Sun. The negative expression of Sun in his chart might be minimized.


He might have an associate or spouse, whose chart hurts his Sun more and we can have a person who acts more negatively (as far as expression of Sun is concerned).


So many variables. Blind or cold reading for me is tough


And we only discussed one natural association of Sun. There are many.


I learned it from a person, who according to his claims learned it from a Persia. I was taught orally. Yesterday, I was reading a post on 'Morin' and found that his ideas on 'Combustion' and ours was same. http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4365

Hi Paul,

I use Frawley's system (not mine) while doing horaries. When I do horaries I use his system of essential and accidental dignities. It matches with what you described in one of your above post.

Morpheus wrote: Take the example of 'Sun'. If the Sun is negative. We need to see what Sun represents in the chart. That is not possible if we don't discuss it with the client.

In general terms. Sun represents father, elder brother, authorities, and other things.

Now a negative Sun means either this person has negative experience of a father. or his father got into problems gradually after the birth of this person. It could also mean that if person decided to 'respect' his father. His father start having problems of his own (seemingly not caused by his Son).

In view of the above, how can I hit on any single statement if I am doing a blind reading.

But that's okay, just by providing that a negative sun means that the person has a negative experience of a father, or his father got into troubles after birth, etc. is a conclusion. At least those are actually statements about the person and not merely a check list of things in the chart devoid of any interpretational value. By providing these kinds of "generally this can be..." statements we provide some interpretational value.

So many variables. Blind or cold reading for me is tough

And we only discussed one natural association of Sun. There are many

Tough for everyone, part of the art of interpretation though is, in my opinion, being able to take a symbol, which could mean a thousand things depending on context, and articulating at least some likely or more relevant associations of the placement, and of course in real life you can have a conversation and consult with the client and get a better picture of how that applies in their life, but we should be still able to give some, even simple, associations or statements.

For example, I may say that someone with Moon square Saturn has a difficult or strained relationship with the mother or with experiences of nurture whilst growing up - perhaps the mother was absent, ill or incapable in some regards or was a woman who we saw as facing great difficulties of her own. Perhaps the native with this combination had to take on extra responsibility from a young age, or was forced to grow up quickly. As the person grows up there can be a fear that nurture or security could be threatened or removed.

Now that's just a brief paragraph and may not apply to everyone with the combination and we don't even look at any other placement here and it's probably a more psychological depiction than a traditional one. But at least it's a step in the right direction and tells us a lot more than saying: Moon square Saturn: negative. Otherwise we just list statuses with no context of what they mean.

Paul,

You have a way with words. I agree with your above post. My reluctance to a cold/bind reading is my initial exposure to Natal Astrology. I was apprenticed to a teacher in my teenage, who taught what he knew and discouraged me making general statements. In the end, he transferred what he wanted to and made me able to read charts of live and present clients.

The result is, I have not felt need or necessity to enlarge my knowledge regarding houses, planets, or predictive system as far as natal astrology is concerned.

So, when I read threads where earnest seekers after truth are trying their best to learn what 'this' or 'that' teacher meant. Atleast I can relax. There must have been error in translations, transmission, misgivings, an attempt to hide the truth, or the language of that period which is making it hard for the current generation to reach to the definite conclusion. And definitely in building a coherent system be it Helenistic or otherwise.


Horary astrology community today is thankful to the efforts of people like Derek Appleby, Olivia, John Frawley, Deborah, Lee Lehman and others who spent every moment of their life to understand what ancients said and what actually 'works'. (and the wonderful translations done by all the Roberts and Benjamin Dykes)


People like me who can not spend so much time in research, need teachers like those described in above paragraph to learn a 'definite and workable system.


But as all systems in this world, the natal system that I learned is not that 'complete. Somehow, it 'does not have


-Hyleg
-Rank of fame
-Rank of Slavery &
-Temperament.


I made few experiments with Hyleg in 2007. I read a lecture delivered by Bernadette Brady. Tested on different charts and saw it tallied with information gleaned from 'Palmistry'. One week ago I had same experience with 'Rank of fame'.


So I was thinking of learning above in no uncertain terms and see if it can be easily incorporated into the 'system', hence the object of starting this thread.

Hi Morpheus,
well, that is different from how I look at planets.
I do blind readings regularly, so I know it's possible, but it isn't easy, true.

Hi Paul,
thanks for the link, I may have to make use of it at some point when I decide to post something here.

Buy the series persian nativity books by benjamin dykes it has details on hyleg interesting information , you find them in his website at cheaper price

Thanks Hsn1983.