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anybody experience saturn in the 12th house?

 
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AstroNovice



Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 153
Location: United States

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:16 am    Post subject: anybody experience saturn in the 12th house? Reply with quote

I keep seeing this placement pop up in solar return charts that I am reading and I have no idea how to interpret it. Additionally many sources say mixed things about it, some sources say that saturn in the 12th house is a good thing (because it weakens hidden enemies), other sources say that saturn in the 12th is a bad thing because its essentially a malefic in a malefic house. Obviously it can't be both, can it? So for me, I am interested in just trying to figure out how saturn in the 12th house functions in real life and what kind of experiences it brings.
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Larxene



Joined: 22 Sep 2012
Posts: 312

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting question. Some time ago, Michael Sternbach and I had a conversation where he used Saturn in 12th as an example, saying that the person may enjoy living like a hermit or monk, etc. That conversation kind of sparked a blog post I made about a month ago. I have not personally seen a chart with Saturn in 12th yet, so I can't give any real life examples.

I'd simply like to ask you, how are you going to go about researching this? Smile



There is one thing I want to mention. In Mathesis, there are some passages where a planet is in the 6th, but because a planet in the 10th is aspecting it, the maleficence of the 6th house planet is diminished. So when you do your research, observe the kind of support that the 12th house Saturn is getting, as it may not be Saturn himself that is providing the benefits (when it occurs), but rather, for example, a well-placed Jupiter in the 4th, that is aspecting Saturn.

In the same way, we should consider the sect and dignities. If you are up to it, you may even want to examine the primary directions/profections/solar revolutions during the time when the benefit is conferred.



EDIT:

Oh, I just realised you are talking about solar revolutions and not natal charts. Well, you still have to consider the same things like I mentioned above, but before that you should examine the natal chart and evaluate Saturn's overall position. If something is not promised in the natal chart, the Solar Revolutions chart won't be able to create miracles.

For instance, the 12th house may signify depression, but a person who is not normally prone to mental disorders won't suffer as much from such a placement. If he does happen to experience such a thing, it is likely to be episodic, rather than chronic.

Of course, if Saturn is a time lord, the goodness or badness will become accentuated.
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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 891

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Larxene wrote:
I have not personally seen a chart with Saturn in 12th yet



Examples of natal charts with Saturn in the twelfth house

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Sedgwick,_Edie

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Plath,_Sylvia

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Gandhi,_Indira
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moonwise



Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 129
Location: USA-Germany

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:15 pm    Post subject: 2 personal experiences of Saturn in 12th Reply with quote

These are not solar returns nor are they natal placements. But I can give you some big examples of Saturn transiting the 12th house.

When Saturn transited my 12th I lost a position in a company that I really liked and had hoped to stay with for many years. I also started reading quite a bit of religious books and though I've always been interested with astrology the "free" time meant I could read, study charts and use the internet for more astrological purposes. I did become more introspective, but that was because I was more interested in solitary pursuits mentioned above. Plus there was no more outings with work associates.

A family member of mine became interested in the medical field and started working in that industry. Not a doctor but in more administrative ways and was always studying to pass the exams and volunteering in clinics.
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Yukionna



Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 128

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw this thread quite late, so I hope you're still 'at it'.

In order to be able to determine how a Solar Return 12th house Saturn works out in the chart, one must first know its role in the natal chart. And to know that, one must determine its zodiacal condition. Is it the sect malefic, is it dignified, afflicted, retrograde etc.
I think a dignified Saturn in 12 in a day chart, unafflicted and in a good position to the Sun will very likely be constructive, even though placed in a difficult house. 12th is not only about selfundoing and sadness and so on, but also isolation and withdrawal, which mustn't always be a bad thing.
Depending on the houses it rules it will mean different things in regards to the areas of life it effects. Eg, if 12th house Saturn were one of the Asc rulers (and thus signified the native) and also one of the 9th house rulers, in 12 it could show that the native will isolate him/herself for religious or philosophical reasons
However, in a nocturnal chart, and without dignity Saturn could signify chronical, life threatening diseases, especially if aspecting 6th house planets or Moon. It all depends.

So suppose the latter were the case, and you had some medical problem, and then you have Saturn in the Solar 12th again, then the topic probably is this illness. If Saturn were in better condition than in the natal, there might be some relief, if it's as bad or worse, things may actually deteriorate. Especially if Saturn were time lord.

However, there's still a lot I need to learn about Solar Returns, so these are just my thoughts now.
Yuki
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