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Very Aquarian mystery chart
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amelia



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
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Location: Wales

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:08 pm    Post subject: Very Aquarian mystery chart Reply with quote

Given the interest in Mark's thread on Uranus/Aquarius/Aries in the philosophy forum
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8075

I thought the following mystery chart might be fun



Shelly is not her real name and she is not famous- it would be just too easy with this combination for astrologers to remember anyone who was.

The data is accurate though as she is a twin ( a sister was born a few minutes later - but we won't worry about her at the moment).

Any observations are welcome but particularly given the discussion in Mark's thread:

Sense of identity
Occupation
Interests
Relationships

Enjoy!
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Michael Sternbach
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Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say, Shelly is an enthusiastic woman with philanthropic tendencies. She may be somewhat fierce at times, but was more so in her younger years. She had some traumatizing experiences that softened her up, like a divorce. She is working with groups of people in need, most likely children (orphans). She tends to be dreamy. Possibly overweight.

Regards
Michael
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waybread



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Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amelia,

I don't know if you read Nasser's Under One Sky, but blind chart readings are really difficult to do well, even by experts. Usually the native gives some sense as to why she wants her chart read and even says something about herself; and these data-bytes provide hooks with which we can capture one interpretation of a given placement over another. A blind reading gives us one slippery surface.

Here is a modern interpretation using dual rulers, from the Fools Rush In Department. I've not taken the time to work with this woman's transits and progressions, which would give better clues as to how her life has turned out than a simple nativity reading can. Sometimes you can see, for example, the little kid with a serious life-altering accident, but this takes time to work with further charts.

I'm willing to be wrong (and probably will be) but feedback please, as that way I'll learn something.

This would be one Aquarian chart that I would see as having a strong Saturnine influence, because of Capricorn on the cusp of the Saturn-Mars house, and Saturn carrying over into the sun's house as a domiciled cusp ruler. Uranus opposite sun-Jupiter-Venus suggests that an unpredictable disruptive energy would feel threatening to Shelly, until she learned to balance the different sides of her nature.

The Mercury-sun-Jupiter /Neptune square suggests a further feeling of a threatened identity; although Jupiter-Neptune can give a huge appetite for "big picture" knowledge, be it through science or through metaphysics. Sun-Neptune contacts are frequent in the charts of both scientists and alcoholics. Go figure. Shelly's love of abstraction or ideas is strengthened by so much air in her horoscope. With Mercury retrograde does she spend a lot of time in her own universe?

I would see Shelly as a very guarded, private person. Scorpio on the first with a stellium in the 4th could suggest a real home-body. I would imagine her as happiest at home with her computer and her books. The moon in Aries gets us back to Mars in Aquarius. I think most people would see her as a cool personality, hard to read, introverted. Has she learned how to get by in life with very little emotional nurturing?

One interesting feature of people with a big stellium in a particular house, is that so many "roads" lead back to it. Friendships? Mercury on the 11th house cusp leads back to Mercury in Aquarius in the 4th. Committed romantic relationships? We're back to Venus in Aquarius in the 4th. Career? We're back to the sun in Aquarius in the 4th.

My sense is of someone who finds it difficult to fit in socially, however much she might like to fit in, she's a loner at heart; in part because she needs so much "down time." (SN conjunct sun.)

Aquarius is interpreted as a "social sign" but I don't see the other chart factors supporting a rich social life.

Here's where Aquarius gets interesting. If we use Uranus as the modern ruler of Aquarius, then we highlight the prominent see-saw effect of home vs. career, the profound need for a private life contrasted with career ambition.

With Uranus square ascendant, I wonder if her appearance is "unusual"-- hair that never behaves, buttons that pop off for no reason, perhaps unconventional tastes in clothing.

You asked about:

Occupation: I hope Shelly went into research science, IT, or engineering. For a woman of her age, however, she might have taken a collateral route. Uranus in the 10th suggests either she found a lot of variety in her career, or else that it went through multiple destabilizing episodes: or both.

Relationships: Shelly is capable of enormous commitment, with so many fixed sign planets and ASC, but does she put herself into circulation sufficiently to meet people? This isn't a warm fuzzy kind of love, but a sense that once having committed to someone, she doesn't take it lightly.

Interests: That Aries moon in the 5th heading into the 6th, sextile Mars should count for something-- hopefully athletic, and based on endurance. Reading.
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james_m



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Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Very Aquarian mystery chart Reply with quote

Sense of identity
community minded spirit with a strong independence streak. guided by desire to help others and to make the world a better place. something about one of her parents is key here - perhaps the father was a strong role model in some context. strongly driven from an ideological position given all the fixed energy of the chart.. the moon is the spark plug being the only body in cardinal. it rules the 9th, so some type of pronounced political or ideological position that forms the basis for their sense of identify..


Occupation - working with street people perhaps.. creating resources or helping others find the resources to make a better life. recycling, or doing something where money is generated from some home based activity that is of benefit to the community she lives in. could be a community health care nurse, or social worker.. possibly involved in some type of rehab program. antique business - which is another type of recycling biz.. bidding on storage lockers? what i see is moon is trine midheaven, while neptune is rising. there is a 4th house emphasis in aquarius and mars/saturn on the nadir.. i would imagine some unusual profession given all of this in combo with uranus retro in the 10th square the ascendant.. perhaps some work involving a persons sexual orientation is also suggested here - mars/saturn on the nadir in combo with venus/uranus opposition squaring onto the ascendant and the strong position of uranus in opposition to those aq planets.

Interests - see above comments for ideas.

Relationships - offbeat.. not sure if this person is in a relationship, but if so there is something offbeat about it. i suspect it is hard to integrate the male energy with the female energy here.. there may be some type of confusion about her sexual identity which shapes any relationship she has a certain way..


thanks amelia! additional notes..

the fact uranus is in the 7th house to all those aquarias planets puts a spin on the relationship theme and would push the idea of relationships being an especially uranian area if indeed uranus has a big say in this chart.. uranus is in a commanding position to the ascendant here which does give it some special weight... the idea of a transvestite working to help others in a similar situation is not out of the realm of possibility... don't tell shelley i said this, if it is of no bearing!! cheers james

take 2 -additional thoughts..

i am kinda fascinated by the mars/saturn conjunction on the nadir.. i think this combo is quite strong by planetary phase.. mars is the planet of sect - in a 60 to moon in aries, while saturn is the planet out of sect, but also 60 moon.. mars rules the ascendant and also house 5 or 6.. the moon also happens to be in aries while 120 the midheaven.. this seems to emphasize aries more then scorpio. based on the midheaven degree - mars is exactly opposite this degree. mars has special status in different ways here. meanwhile the first planet oriental the sun is sometimes thought to be a vocational indicator..i am not sure how mercury fits in here, but overall i think it is not able to do it's work as well as mars or saturn. mercury would rule the 11th and 8th. further to this, the moon - always an important consideration especially in a nocturnal chart has left the sextile from mars and is moving towards the sextile to mercury. if you use less conventional aspects - it is 150 pluto and moving to exact 45 venus.

all in all, i still think mars is pivotal on all levels to this chart.. as far as triplicity rulers - mercury, jupiter and mars have some say over this chart. on balance i think mars is the strongest planet, able to fulfill it's objectives. mercury in square to neptune is less of a choice or pushes the chart into the devotion to others angle that i have already suggested.. sun in such a close conjunction to jupiter is interesting, but still i think mars is the top dog of this chart. mars in a close conjunction to saturn always implies a very strong sense of determination that suggests someone who works very hard to reach their goals, whatever the goals might be. what does mars conjunct the nadir imply? that is the question i continue to ask!! obviously i am not very good at this as i am incapable of giving a simple direct answer to this!!!
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Nixx



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Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sense of identity
I’ll have to pass on this it seems to lack any meaning. A circle is sometimes seen as a symbol of the self , as its round or Mandela like, so it might be ones conscious awareness of being a living human like entity not identical to another of these forms is contained in all of the chart not just one or more components.

Occupation
Leo Mc and with Uranus there, the public persona could contain a more overt look at me, I’m an ‘individual’ or free thinker aroma. The ruler of the MC conjunct Jupiter, even If out of the limelight in the 4th, could suggest an underlying sense of righteousness and support for ones more public presence.

Interests
A mixture of the penetrative and wacky looking at the Scorpio/Aquarius dynamic, either way might stick at whatever they are. Might be important to her though with the Moon (safety/containment )in the egocentric/indulgent 5th house.

Relationships
Swinger, manifest or latent, all that Aquarian libidinal desire can’t often be found in the one attachment, unless the love interest is somewhat experimental. But Scorpio rising, and the Sun in the 4th, could talk about close friends and family, or biographers!, being the last to know this. Saturn might hold the Martial thrusts back here though, talk the talk but can’t quite get to the Swingers club sort of thing.

I’m a bit puzzled here as the other thread seemed to be a back and forth for some between does, (on this chart), Uranus or Saturn or both talk about the way the home is decorated. But you didn't ask about the person’s interior design.
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amelia



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Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the responses so far.

Just a quick update ( but no clues). There is one remark so far that is spot on but I'm not going to let you know which it is!!

I'll post an additional related chart on Saturday but I wanted to see if anyone is able to spot the potential first.

I'll then give it another week, before posting the facts on 22nd or 23rd


Nixx
Quote:
I’m a bit puzzled here as the other thread seemed to be a back and forth for some between does, (on this chart), Uranus or Saturn or both talk about the way the home is decorated. But you didn't ask about the person’s interior design.


By all means add this if you want. And indeed anything else that you might like to - I just wanted to give some pointers and direction initially as it is a bit overwhelming when just faced with a chart and no specific questions.
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Paul
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Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rather than answer them all, I will just stick to one: Occupation.

I tend to agree largely with James' interpretation, though I see Waybread's thinking too. Ultimately I think she probably works with those who are not part of the group of society, and so James' idea of 'street people' or Michael's of people in need, and so I think working as a carer for the unfortunate such as in rehab makes a lot of sense to me or as a carer of children. I think she probably works within some establishment but either in an autonomous position or else with a degree of independence - though I am not sure how prominently she will rise to the top of her field, I suspect she may be overlooked or may not be in it for great career climbing.
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Mjacob



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Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amelia

I would like to interpret this one if we have time but the natives's fourth house looks a bit like mine albeit a different sign. If we think of the fourth house in terms of home I have moved homes numerous times in my life only finding my space in middle age but if your native is younger we may not yet see any similarity

Waybread wrote:

Quote:
I don't know if you read Nasser's Under One Sky, but blind chart readings are really difficult to do well, even by experts. Usually the native gives some sense as to why she wants her chart read and even says something about herself; and these data-bytes provide hooks with which we can capture one interpretation of a given placement over another. A blind reading gives us one slippery surface.


I do not know about Amelia but I have not read this book neverless I do agree with this. In my case it is personal experience and some traditional ideas although the latter may not your be cup of tea. Blind readings have been suggested as a method of testing the validity of astrology so it would interesting to see this authors take on the subject. I have always been dubious about its worth in this context

Matthew
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Paul
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Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mjacob wrote:

I do not know about Amelia but I have not read this book neverless I do agree with this. In my case it is personal experience and some traditional ideas although the latter may not your be cup of tea. Blind readings have been suggested as a method of testing the validity of astrology so it would interesting to see this authors take on the subject. I have always been dubious about its worth in this context

Matthew


Me too, though perhaps for slightly different reasons. Very often in cases like this we're taking an outsider looking in. We can talk about certain things but the other person may say "no, she's not really like that" and yet what we say might actually resonate in some ways with the person themselves. For example someone asked me to read a chart, I actually thought it was their own, and I said about her being a bit of a tom boy kind of person, and so on. THe person said no, but then when it emerged it was not that person's chart it turned out the native herself totally recongised that and used to get called that a lot when younger and still feels it at heart, but has learned to display a different part of her personality to the world.
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waybread



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Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One difficulty with a blind chart reading is that we tend to read it more in terms of our own life and outlook. Do we even know whether or not this woman even has an occupation, for example?

With so much weight in the chart in the 4th house, plus the ruler of the 10th, 6th, and 2nd houses in or on the cusp of the 4th, we are getting a huge pull into that part of the chart. Then Uranus does not seem so happily placed-- even for a hyper-Aquarian, because it opposes sun-Jupiter-Venus, plus Mercury-sun-Jupiter are also hit with a 12th house Neptune square. These are not self-confidence boosting aspects.

I actually wondered whether Shelly might experience panic attacks, agoraphobia, or Asperger's but I don't think you can read these transparently off a chart, plus her moon isn't so terribly troubled; so I didn't say anything in my first post.

We assume that "Shelly" has an occupation because Amelia asked us about it, but whatever it might be, it would seem to come with an awful lot of stress attached to it. At her best, Shelly might be a crack research scientist. 4th house occupations in modern astrology are typically listed as real estate and interior decorating, but these occupations require a lot of ability to be out-and-about working with clients. At her worst, Shelly would have a spotty employment record, if that.

Many astrologers have noted that you cannot always tell from a "naked" chart what level of personal evolution the person has achieved. We can determine from Shelly's planetary placements that she was born in 1962, so hopefully a woman in her early 50s would have gained some mastery in dealing with her most unusual planetary placements.
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waybread



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Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

p. s. I also note that Shelly's chart is low in water and earth, which suggests to me a real pull towards working with abstract ideas. Supposedly Aquarius is the great humanitarian, but oftentimes they prefer humanity at arm's length, rather than mixing with actual embodied people on a close personal basis.
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Mjacob



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Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My reply disappeared in the ether but I will try again. First of all with all traditional planets under the horizon I hope that this is not trick question as this indicated early death.

I estimated a sanguine temperament Saturn Almuten figuris. Neverless Mars is closer to the angle in the chart. The fourth house emphasis could be related to the land and with Saturm AM it could indicate this is the spititual home. Fixity in angles and asc ruler on 4th means native seeks security in home and family.

Mercury could be a problem. Retro and surrounded by malefica and Sun in exile conj dragons tail and that is before you consider opp of Uranus perhaps trouble mind or forced changes that disturb her.

Moon on 6th cusp in house of Mars mays me suggest vetinary job. Would be at home on farm at lambing time.

The fourth house emphasis could be a thoughtful person with a rich inner life. We know not famous so maybe this is an indicator

Matthew


Last edited by Mjacob on Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Nixx



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Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amelia wrote:

Nixx
Quote:
I’m a bit puzzled here as the other thread seemed to be a back and forth for some between does, (on this chart), Uranus or Saturn or both talk about the way the home is decorated. But you didn't ask about the person’s interior design.


By all means add this if you want. And indeed anything else that you might like to - I just wanted to give some pointers and direction initially as it is a bit overwhelming when just faced with a chart and no specific questions.


An old friend of mine has this Uranus in 10th ruling the 4th Aquarius on the Cusp dynamic. He painted his house a 'loud' colour and it sure does stand out in a row of red brick terraced houses in a large UK city. Yet the inside of the house even though he has lived there a decade or more remains relatively untouched and unremarkable, other than it being a typically offensive and soulless 60's inner city Uk living space. He is well aware it's pretty ugly but can't find the motivation to change it.

I asked him why he had done this and he did not say it was to reform or progress the street but simply he liked the colour. (Hmmm).

However his 4th house is empty, whereas on this MC chart it isn't, even has the Sun there, so it could be the inside is as ‘Uranian’ as the outside

Ps I was joking about the swinger thing, although who knows! It is a bit of a cliché that when these two inner planets are in Aquarius the ‘free love’ ( opposite to, yet connected with, the Leo ‘Casanova’ syndrome ) is experienced with groups rather than individuals, You can speculate if you have one in each sign then a ménage a trois might be the fantasy de jour.
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Michael Sternbach
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Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I wrote my first post regarding Shelly, I only had time to note a few quick impressions, without any explanations. For the sake of this interesting discussion, I would like to add how I find support for my notions in this chart and expand my theory:

Shelly is somebody living pretty much in a world of her own, given that all the personal planets are under the horizon (and other factors which I will go into later). Having so many planets in Aquarius certainly makes her very unconventional and imaginative. Neptune in XII square Mercury and the Sun would give additional impetus to her imagination, sometimes making it difficult to tell reality from fantasy.

Nevertheless, Uranus - the dispositor of the stellium in Aquarius - is in the tenth house, just like Pluto, the dispositor of her Scorpio ASC, so her occupation would be really important to her. Also, the Ascending Node in the tenth house would require Shelly to come out of her shell (pun unintended).

Ungrounded as she may often be (by the way, a common reason for somebody to unconsciously put extra-weight on), it's quite possible that she finds deep satisfaction in working with groups of people in difficult situations in order to express her deeply philanthropic nature and social interests to the fullest. These tendencies are accentuated by Jupiter conjunct the Aquarius Sun and pursued with intensity also because the Sun is in sextile to the Moon in Aries.

But working with adults could indeed be difficult for Shelly because she is so unusual and imaginative. Children would be a real possibility, in accordance not only with the fourth house placements but also with the Moon in the 5th house in sextile to the Aquarius planets. This house is seen by me as an analogue to Leo, and all her Aquarius planets receive a “touch” of Leo by Uranus being in that sign. The Ascending Node is in Leo too, a sign often very fond of children.

Orphans come to mind here especially in light of the Uranian nature of the stellium in the fourth house and the oppositions it receives from Uranus (this planet sometimes brings with him outcasts of one kind or another).

An Aquarian character is not always into IT; in Shelly's case Uranus could perhaps signify that she really enjoys to watch TV at home or with her proteges (Neptune's square aspect would suit this). That is, when she isn't involved in some inventive, playful and/or socially valuable activity with the latter! Despite her very loving nature, supposedly she can be a little impatient and angry with her fosterlings as well under certain circumstances (Moon in Aries, Scorpio ASC).

As far as relationships are concerned, Venus receiving an opposition from Uranus (which additionally is square to her DSC) would make it difficult for her to get the reliable and lasting partnership that she basically longs for (ASC/DSC in Scorpio/Taurus, Venus in the fourth house). I wouldn't be surprised if she suffered one or more divorces. But considering her age and loving nature (Venus conjunct Sun), I have hope that meanwhile she has found a reliable partner sympathetic to her unusual ways and offering her some of the stability she is in need of.

Michael
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james_m



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Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i too like michael s's thought on working with orphan kids or something to that effect.. one could get at that a few ways too ( neptune at the venus/uranus midpoint or on the top of the tsquare and rising, jupiter ruling the 5th whole sign and so close to the sun and etc)..

one thought i want to come back to here is that conjunction of mars/saturn on the i.c. and what it might mean. i do think it is vitally important and had a thought that goes with my idea of the sex change, or some issue connected to that.. mars is in sect, while saturn is out of sect. mars is about sexuality, maybe more so when factored with venus, but then the midpoint to these 2 is also the neptune/mercury square.. i continue to think the importance of mars is vital to this chart and while it is the chart of a women, the mars energy seems especially strong and focused. i am thinking it could work out this way with a crazy thing like sex change which impacts all her relationships accordingly - all that uranus north node in the solar 7th opposite all those aquarius planets makes sense if i am correct on that.
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