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Will my friend's rapist be caught?
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voyagergirl



Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 333
Location: Michigan, USA

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:47 am    Post subject: Will my friend's rapist be caught? Reply with quote

My dear friend was raped at knife-point in her own home. I asked the horary question:

Will the police catch TC's rapist?



My friend is ruled by Venus and the 11th house. Venus is in Cancer and it will square Uranus and Pluto.

I think Saturn represents the police. Saturn is in my friend's second house and retrograde, so they are not in the strongest position. The rape occurred 5 days ago, and the Moon in Taurus is 5 degrees past an opposition to Saturn, representing the timing of the rape.

I think because the Moon is exalted in Taurus, the rapist will be caught. I believe the rapist is ruled by Mars. We know that he was a young man, between the ages of 20 and 30 or so, and he has tattoos and a short "buzz" haircut. He speaks English with a heavy Mexican accent. Mars in Gemini is angular, but is disposed of by Mercury in Cancer, which is disposed of by the exalted Moon.

Mars at 3 Gemini will square Neptune at 5 Pisces. Neptune ruled Sagittarius, the ruler of Mar's 8th, and I think he will be caught in some increment of two: ((Mars square Neptune by 2 degrees). Neptune also rules prisons.

What do you think?
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Geoffrey



Joined: 09 Jul 2012
Posts: 380
Location: Scottish Borders

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:09 am    Post subject: Re: Will my friend's rapist be caught? Reply with quote

voyagergirl wrote:

My friend is ruled by Venus and the 11th house. Venus is in Cancer and it will square Uranus and Pluto.


But these are applying aspects, and the rape was in the past. Are you suggesting further trauma or problems related to the rape?

Quote:
I think Saturn represents the police. Saturn is in my friend's second house and retrograde, so they are not in the strongest position. The rape occurred 5 days ago, and the Moon in Taurus is 5 degrees past an opposition to Saturn, representing the timing of the rape.


If the police are Saturn and the Saturn-Moon opposition represents the rape, are you saying the police were involved in the rape?

You referred to your friend as your "dear" friend, indicating a very close friendship, and I would note that Venus also rules the 7th house in this chart. Venus is in the radical 8th house and Mercury, ruler of the 8th is separating from a conjunction to Venus. This, I would suggest, represents the act of rape. (Though the conjunction was actually on the 25th of May) See too that Jupiter (in its detriment) is also in the 8th and both planets were recently conjunct Jupiter.

If we give the 7th house to your friend, the ruler of your friend's 12th house of 'hidden enemies' would be Mars, ruler of the radical 6th house. Mars is also angular and peregrine, which is a traditional significator of thieves in particular, but by extension criminals who invade your home or your person in general. I would agree that Mars here is probably the rapist. The attack was at knife point and that would be true to form for a Martian character. Mars is applying in square to Neptune in Pisces, so is desperately trying to hide in a place ruled by Jupiter - remember Jupiter in the 8th house.... Neptune is angular, indicating that the rapist may be hiding quite close by, and the Jupiter character may well be known to your friend. (Someone large, running to fat, a good talker?)

The Moon here is the ruler of the radical 9th house, which represents the law and so 'justice'. There is also a mutual reception between Venus and the Moon, showing the connection between the police and the victim here. Will the rule of law catch up with the rapist? The Moon next applies to Mars by conjunction, but the Moon goes Void of Course first, indicating that there will be a period where nothing seems to happen. It will not be until the Moon changes sign that the conjunction is perfected, so I would suggest an interpretation where the trail may well go cold for some period of time, before some lead comes to light which enables the police finally apprehend the rapist.

Too, Mars is under the Sun's beams and Leo is intercepted in the 9th house. The sun also represents the forces of justice here. The rapist may well be known to the police. As a general comment, Mars is 'besieged' between the two luminaries, so this is another indicator that his identity will be 'brought to light'.

If you have a good time for the rape, an event chart may serve us better.
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1464

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi voyagergirl,

as a dear friend is no partner, I would, as you did, prefer to stick to the eleventh houses lord, Venus, as significator for your friend. Even though perhaps not recognized, the man is an open enemy, and is thus signified by lord 7 (like an even unseen thieve), here Mars (lord of the fifth of the chart = the seventh from the eleventh).

As it is to the state or its authorities,the police, the lords of the tenth, Mercury, or of the eleventh, helpers of the state, Venus, would be the proper significators in my opinion, and this without turning the chart, because the state and its authorities are common for all, and not special ones to the querent or her friend.

Possibly the node in the eleveth has saved your friend from even more mischief than she has suffered now?
To get the rapist caught, there should be a conjunction or a good aspect between the lords 5 (Mars) and 10 (state) or 11 (the states helpers, translation or collecting of light.

The only connection between all these significators seems to be the Moon, translating the light of Mercury to the antiscion of Mars at 26񳋗0创 of Cancer by her (the Moon's) sextile.
I admit this to be a rather adventuours construction.

On the other hand there is a mutual reception of Mars and Mercury (by house and term of Mercury, and by triplicity of Mars).

As Lilly does not mention mutual reception at all (in the context of theft as the essential conditions of catching the thieve) to get hold of the offender, I doubt that the police should find the man. Perhaps after a very long time and by accident - if at all. But probably never.

Hoping to be totally wrong in my judgment, so that the police will catch the offender, I wish you and especially your friend all the best for the future.

Johannes
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voyagergirl, Geoffrey, and Johannes,

It very hard for some of us by preference to read this particular style of maps as the numeric value of the planet in degrees and minutes is Not readily visible like using the first choice of type charts on astro.com, Web Default Style, and thank you for going Regio because Lilly did.

If one does Not recalculate off the following webpage nor enlarge the horoscope it tends to stay on the posts and from it one may get the additional tables(PDF) that are very helpful:

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?cid=adlfileeYtNet-u1370554399;lang=e;gm=a1;btyp=2;mth=gw;sday=6;smon=6;syr=2013;hsy=5;zod=;orbp=;rs=2;add=18;node=-Yn;pfday=-YP%201;fix=1;ast=&nhor=1&nho2=1

Like Johannes I agree that your friend is the horary's 11th and the rapist is a thief of sexuality, the 5th(7th of the 11th) and rightfully that Lucifer-like Mars is lord of the 5th, the thief of sexuality.

Now what I am percieving that the query truly is is like saying:

Will the Rapist(thief of her sexuality) be arrested?

So I'm seeing the horary's 4th as the sexual thief's 12th, ruled by Jupiter(lord of his incarceration). And Jupiter at 25gem24 will recieve Sol 15gem28 making a cjt in less than 10 degrees(and Al Biruni's tables shows this is in moiety), which typically conjunctions are positive indicators, or a Yes answer. Though terms, face, dignities, lord or hour, etc., and Not excluding Lilly's point count need to be consulted to weigh all the testimonies.

So I think he will be caught, yet Johannes has no doubt more experience with thief horarys than I and I'm going to have to re-read Lilly's 7th matters to see if there may be some query that Lilly answered that was about the thief being caught; and I'm certain that it is in CAII.

Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men truly know how little they know
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1464

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Clinton,

what exactly is the Sun significator for, please?

Johannes
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johannes said:

Quote:
what exactly is the Sun significator for, please?


Johannes, as Sol is is cjt the 8th house cusp(Lilly's 5 degree rule) yet Apollo(Sun) rules no house cusp if this horary's time is correct as 0vir58 is on the 10H, and Leo is intercepted.

And what is it our beloved Lilly says about a planet conjunt a house cusp?

Lilly said "...it's vertute would be given to that house'

So as Titan(sun) is cjt the house of sexuality or death as according to Lilly in CAI page 54, under 'Eigth House matters' Lilly says:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astrology-books/

Quote:
It rules the Privy-Parts. Of colours, the green and Black.

Of Signes it hath Scorpio for Cosignificator, and Saturn, the Hemoroids, the Stone, Strangury, Poysons, and Bladder are ruled by this house;....


So I'm reading this Apollo(Sun), the major Light cjt the 8th, as showing the sexual nature of this query as Lilly states "Privy-Parts", and "Scorpio for Cosignificator', and "Bladder" all stating the correlation or corespondence to the 8H.

I think even Ray Charles, the deceased blind singer, if he studied horary could see this emphasis!

However Johannes, with the Moon actually VOC though in one of those signs, Taurus, where Bonatus and Lilly say they 'can or may act', I can see why you have your doubts that anything will ever turn up in this query in finding the rapist!

Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men truly know how little they know
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voyagergirl stated:

Quote:
Venus is in Cancer and it will square Uranus and Pluto.


Definitely a Moderne technique, as those planets were Not known and utilized in Traditionalism before 1700 with the exception that Plato is said to have wrote about them from what was left from the Atlanteans.

This is a hard one as Lilly in CA doesn't leave us any queries directing us about sexual assaults. I can see why Voyagergirl, your friend possibly would not want to ask such a query herself as this is a very heartbreaking ordeal. Yet in Lilly's CA he in talking about the thief is answering questions from the one who is stolen from, the actual ascendant or querant. Since you are asking for her it may make the matter more difficult as on this Forum we aren't giving free advice, we are to be dedicated students struggling at times with our art.

Our adept Geoffrey has thought the 12th of secret enemies may be the house of the matter, but since you list descriptions of the Hispanic male with tatoos I sincerily doubt that he is a secret enemy, the derived 12th, to her since the sexual crime happened.

If this is more akin to a sexual type theft, as a woman's virtue has been stolen, like Johannes, I see it as a 7th type matter, and as your friend is the 11th, the 5th ruled by that devil Mars, and Lilly says of apprehension of the thief as in CAII page 365 to 366:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astrology-books/

Quote:
He shall be taken.

If the Lord of the ascendant be in the 7th, or in Conjunction to the Lord of the 7th; or the Lord of the 7th in the 1st, or joyned to the Lord of the 1st, or a Retrograde Planet; or if the Moon separate from the Lord of the 7th, to the Conjunction of the Lord of the 1st; or from the Conjunction of the Lord of the 1st to the Lord of the 7th; or if Sun and Moon be in Conjunction with the Lord of the 7th, some day, if they behold him; or if the Lord of the 7th be going to Conjunction, viz. Combustion; or if the Lord of the ascendant be in Conjunction in the ascendant, 10th or 7th, or an infortunate Planet in the 7th.


As I stated since I am using a derived house for your friend, the 11th, it's Not the true Asc., and the lord of the derived asc. representing your friend using the 11th is in the derived 10th is the horary's 5th is the derived or turned 7th yet Hermes(Mercury) is separating from Anthrodite(Venus) lord of derived Asc.

The only thing I can find in that Lilly extraction is:

Quote:
...or an infortunate Planet in the 7th.


Where No planet is actually in the 5th, yet Mars is lord of the 5th, so that is stretching this quite a bit.

Lilly further states about the apprehension of a thief, in this case a sexual thief:

Quote:
Other Rules that the Thiefe shall be taken.

Moon in the 7th, applying to the Lord of the 8th.
Lord of the 1st in the ascendant.
Moon in the 7th applying to a Square of Mars.
Moon seperating from a Square of Saturn or Mercury, applying to a Square of Sol.
Moon in the 6th, 8th or 12th.
Moon Seperating from a Conjunction of Saturn, applying to a Square of Mercury.
Moon in the 8th, in Opposition to Mars in the 2nd.


The only thing I can see from the above Lilly rules is if the 5th is representative of the rapist then Luna is in the derived 8th as Lilly states:

Quote:
Moon in the 6th, 8th or 12th.


Wish Lilly, Coley, or an Ancient had left a query like this for us to follow.

Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men truly know how little they know
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cor scorpii



Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 580

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if Mars's emergence under the rays around 22nd June will expose the rapist and 'cause' him to get caught?

On the other hand, the Moon is a bit over seventeen and a half degrees away from Mars, the significator of the rapist and if we convert these into days, we get the same date.

Goran
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voyagergirl,

I'm truly interested in your query and know you may just be starting out in horary but it helps all of us involved when the poster takes a more active part in the discussion.

Reading this from the list of topics, third down, on *electional and horary* heps us understand what we are doing here as well:

Quote:
Sticky: Please Read Before Posting In This Forum


It would have been great if your friend had asked the query as it May have made it easier to interpret. However the way it transpired must with that VOC Luna in Taurus show the circumstances surrounding this matter.

You may realize Voyagergirl that we Can Not prompt a horary, but you may explain to her that she could ask what direction or where is the rapist? These are much harder queries and **you should put forth a lot of effort in answering the query yourself as the devotees of this forum love those who are persistent and truly participate!**

Johannes asked:

Quote:
Hi Clinton,

what exactly is the Sun significator for, please?


I'm not certain I understand for you didn't reply back. Did I adequately explain what Sol is in this horary or were you prompting me to consider the sun as detectives as the turned chart put Apollo(sun) on the derived 8th.

Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men truly know how little they know
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Meredith



Joined: 05 Jul 2012
Posts: 64

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello there,

I'm a beginner and have lately adopted the technique of using whole sign houses (and I don't use the outer planets).

This is my take on the chart. Friend is 11th house, mercury. Her attacker is the turned 7th (open enemies) ie Jupiter. Mercury was recently conjunct Jupiter by antiscia.

I note others have mentioned that venus was conjunct mercury recently also but when I checked my ephemeris this was when they were both in gemini. I wonder if someone would mind confirming that this is valid being that the significators are currently in a different sign? much appreciated, as said, I'm learning.

Aside from the use of WSH to determine sigs, and not using outers, this is the only separating aspect I can make out aside from the moon and saturn.

The Sun will conjunct Jupiter in 14 units of time. Sun is natural significator of authority figures (Lilly) and of Justice (Ptolemy). Jupiter is in the turned 10th, so although it's a 'corrupt' Jupiter being in the sign of its detriment, it was/is strong to act being accidentally dignified in turned 10th, but as said, Sun is also strong to act and I hope that this means justice will prevail and your friend's attacker will be caught.
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meredith said:

Quote:
This is my take on the chart. Friend is 11th house, mercury. Her attacker is the turned 7th (open enemies) ie Jupiter. Mercury was recently conjunct Jupiter by antiscia.



Meredith better re-check the horoscope for Mercury is not the 11th's lord:

Click on this website and see the 11H lord:


If one does Not recalculate off the following webpage nor enlarge the horoscope it tends to stay on the posts and from it one may get the additional tables(PDF) that are very helpful:

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?cid=adlfileeYtNet-u1370554399;lang=e;gm=a1;btyp=2;mth=gw;sday=6;smon=6;syr=2013;hsy=5;zod=;orbp=;rs=2;add=18;node=-Yn;pfday=-YP%201;fix=1;ast=&nhor=1&nho2=1

Quote:
This is my take on the chart. Friend is 11th house, mercury. Her attacker is the turned 7th (open enemies) ie Jupiter. Mercury was recently conjunct Jupiter by antiscia.


It's O.K. we all have a starting point in horary and years latter we find what we had misunderstood about horary as well.

Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men truly know how little they know
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Meredith



Joined: 05 Jul 2012
Posts: 64

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Clinton,

I used Whole Sign Houses in my interpretation as stated at the beginning, with WSH mercury is L11.

Regards, M
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voyagergirl



Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 333
Location: Michigan, USA

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:57 am    Post subject: Update on friend's rapist question Reply with quote

As of today, the police have not caught the person who raped my friend. However, 2 more women residing in this neighborhood have subsequently been raped and the police suspect it's the same person committing the rapes.
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cor scorpii



Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 580

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:30 am    Post subject: Re: Update on friend's rapist question Reply with quote

voyagergirl wrote:
As of today, the police have not caught the person who raped my friend. However, 2 more women residing in this neighborhood have subsequently been raped and the police suspect it's the same person committing the rapes.


Sorry to hear that Sad

As Mars's exit under the beams obviously hasn't exposed the rapist, his entrance into Cancer may (14th July )

The sign of a planet's fall has always been associated with its slavery/dishonor and it was akin to a man in prison/well.

Goran
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voyagergirl



Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 333
Location: Michigan, USA

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:07 am    Post subject: I'll keep you updated Reply with quote

Thanks for your input. The police have published an updated description of the rapist, but no one has been arrested yet. I will let you know as soon as I find out.
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