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Ruler or almuten?
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pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1219
Location: Delhi

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the rumor true?

would have answered the question equally effectively.

Moon applies to 3rd lord jupiter which is in detriment.
Mercury is under sun's beams and in 12th.

The girl's statement of there being someone in her life is false.
So, the querent is free to go and fight with her : Ven sq Mars and not worry about the rumor(Ven sextile applying Jupiter in detriment).

or there is something about - return of virtue concept which I am not very clear about.

Lehman generally knows what she is talking about.

PD
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Chip



Joined: 11 Nov 2010
Posts: 15

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@pankajdubey,

Quote:
Is the rumor true?


1. The querent did not dispute/challenge/wonder about the existence of the 'other man'. He accepted his existence at face value based on the proof furnished by the quesited; the existence of the 'other man' was raised by me, the astrologer, upon casting this chart, and glancing at her primary significator; it cannot be a 3rd house question because it was never put forth as such by the querent

2. It's a relationship question. As a personal rule, I would never read it as 3rd house matter when the querent is involved in the question. I would want to offer advice predicated on reception of significators, separating and applying aspects, perfecting aspects, or lack thereof

3. Is your post an example of Lehman's technique for H3?

There are other practitioners from the Olivia Barclay tree who would suggest that you do not look for an aspect in a True/False question; it's not event-based or situation-based; you look for Fixivity in the chart.

a. Are the angular houses fixed?
b. Is the 3rd house fixed?
c. Is L1, L3, Moon, Moon's Dispositor posited in a fixed sign and angular (or at least not cadent)?

Quote:
Lehman generally knows what she is talking about.


Never implied otherwise. I wouldn't be here to discuss the possibility of using Almutens instead of rulers under a prescribed situation, and showing a willingness to consider her approach in that regard...
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pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1219
Location: Delhi

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@chip

Lehman has used the rumour true examples quite well in MAHA.

The other simple version would be Venus sxt app Jupiter is the other male but unable to obstruct because two benefics in sextile and one in detriment.
So, the Venus sq Mars would give you the outcome.


Saturn in asc warns of something wrong with the question.
Saturn is the 5th lord and in nodal degree.
There is something spooky.

If the querent asks a difficult question -they should be warned of a complicated answer Smile and asked to simplify the question.

eg:Do you want to have a relationship with the querent or just want her to split from the presumed current relationship.In love, many times, the second option is equally preferable Lala Happy

PD
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PallasAthene



Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 696
Location: Bristol, UK

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Chip

Chip wrote:
(Now, we've never known a woman to invent a "rival" in order to stir the interest of a man she likes, or that she would like to see vie for her affection Smile)


Or even to save the man's feelings perhaps? Which seems likely given mars' reception of venus. (term and fall) and placement in the 2nd, his self-esteem.

I think the guy was thinking with his "man parts" and wasn't really that into her anyway. Venus in no reception of mars, but very much into Sun which is in both his triplicty and fall and only in face of mars.
It gave him a little sexual buzz but there was no real compatibility here.
I think your addition, that he (just) wanted to bed her, is accurate!

Not surprised he walked away, given the condition of that square. And with moon (in fall of mars) about to enter via combusta. And clearly describing the querent being so close to AC.

If I hadn't used sun as secondary significator or querent, I'd use turned 5th of 7th for "the other party". This has worked for me in many charts where there is an affair, an ex, or another (romantic/sexual) party involved who needs to be assigned. Again, the receptions work for her trying to spare his feelings and let him down gently. And in the 12th.. hidden; made-up (ie peregrine no status); his own undoing... all work in the context.

If the boyfriend did exist, I wouldn't have given it very long! They only receive each other by face. Virtual strangers? Barely compatible. Someone, Lehman I think actually, said that face has a lot of tension and stress attached to it. Hanging on by your fingernails. So not a happy relationship anyway.

Given that mars is really most interested in herself, perhaps she was single after all? (Or an impossible-to-live-with Diva!)

Re: Almuten
I am trying to find an almuten table for the degrees. Does anyone have a handy link? Thank you.

I take it that saturn is almuten of the 1st cusp, 12 degrees Libra.
(Or is that 13 degrees???? Thanks)

And is Sun the alumten of 12 or 13 degrees Aries?

Sun has no interest in saturn what so ever AND is in his 12th, and saturn is in fall of sun. No aspect between them. So we have a very quick answer!

Moon applies to saturn but jupiter prohibits. (His rational mind perhaps?)

It depends on how quickly he gave up on the situation.
Was it about 4 units of time (venus square mars)?
OR was it about 1 1/2 units of time (moon trine jupiter)

Hope you get back to the thread with the answers.
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ea



Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 55

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PallasAthene wrote:


Re: Almuten
I am trying to find an almuten table for the degrees. Does anyone have a handy link? Thank you.



Lee Lehmann has these tables on her website:

http://leelehman.com/joomla15/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=17&catid=30:essential-dignities&Itemid=2


http://leelehman.com/joomla15/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=18&catid=30:essential-dignities&Itemid=2
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Chip



Joined: 11 Nov 2010
Posts: 15

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@PallasAthene,

Quote:
Or even to save the man's feelings perhaps?


Won't dispute this...

Quote:
wasn't really that into her anyway


Querent was working on developing a relationship with the quesited for 2 1/2 years. Not too many men will wait that long for their "man parts".

Quote:
Venus... very much into Sun


Tyler's interpretation using whole houses was interesting... he eluded that this was an 11th house matter concerning the querent's hopes and dreams...

I personally resisted suggesting it was a 2nd house from the 10th issue (job's money), or 10th house issue (job) using Regiomontanus cusps... the querent is transitioning into a new career... which is one possible explanation of the Sun in the 12th... he never told the quesited...

It was a relationship question, and I was looking to keep it strictly "love triangle"

Quote:
(just) wanted to bed her


He had this opportunity six months after having met her... and didn't... if bedding her is the only motive Jupiter becomes important as significator of the radical 6th...

Tyler wrote:
Quote:
Mars in the 2nd would make sense as the querent obviously holds this (gal) in high esteem


The querent always believed she would help him achieve his ambitions, and finding healing in one another...

PallasAthene wrote:
Quote:
I'd use turned 5th of 7th


I avoided this in the chart because I can better apply the radical 11th or turned 2nd from the 10th to the querent. See above.

Quote:
his own undoing...


Yes

Quote:
impossible-to-live-with Diva!


hmm... sure... but, this is hear-say from the querent... Smile

Quote:
Re: Almuten


Saturn is the almuten of the 1st cusp
The Sun is the almuten of the 7th house cusp
The Sun has interest in Mercury, or Mercury disposits the Sun

Quote:
Sun has no interest in saturn


Saturn is my head scratcher... if I look outside the chart at what I was told, Saturn can represent the radical 4th (querent's father), the 5th (his son), the turned 10th (quesited's career or mother who are both challenges)... to assign it to the 'other man' is a bit of a leap for me...

Quote:
His rational mind perhaps?


I thought the moon is going combust ? how can he be rational ? plus, he's a man... Wink

again, Jup as a 2nd house matter - he both told her something that was not to her liking, and failed to tell her something (Tyler, they communicated once after casting the chart which is why I answered, 'No' to your question); Jup as sig of 6th - he's also sick

Quote:
how quickly he gave up on the situation


Officially, two months after casting the chart. Unofficially, five months prior to casting; the straw was one month before casting when he heard of the 'other man'...

pankajdubey wrote:

Quote:
There is something spooky.


There is not a Saturn aspect to the nodes. I personally don't consider Kepler aspects. IDK, a Whole Sign/Medievil astrologer might consider it since if falls on the cusp of the 3rd/9th
[/quote]
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 4676
Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The strongest significator is always the one that works the best and can be considered as an alternative route. Good luck! Thumbs up
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