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Europe's (incl. Astrology) Heathen Underpinnings?

 
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lihin



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 470
Location: Mount Kailash

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:06 pm    Post subject: Europe's (incl. Astrology) Heathen Underpinnings? Reply with quote

Good afternoon,

Here is a link to a somewhat provocative article at a perhaps 'Hindu fundamentalist' web site that, nevertheless, merits reading and reflection, particularly in respect of astrology:

Europe’s True Identity : Christian or really Pagan ?

To avoid possible misunderstandings, might i mention that, astrologically (and in the relevant liturgical calendars), amongst the Abrahamic religions Islam fits Friday (Fraya=Venus), Judaism Saturday and Christianity Sunday?

Best regards,

lihin
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GR



Joined: 14 May 2005
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Location: USA

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi lihin,

Actually that article is pretty hysterical, or should I say Hindu-sterical? Razz

One good point it does make is casting modern atheism as just an off-shoot of monotheistic religion; I'd think it's another manifestation of the nihilism inherent in monotheism, but that might be all that Nietzsche I've read talking.

There's also a correlation of Christianity to Mercury, due to the constant arguing over doctrines, from one of the Islamic period astrologers; it's been brought up here on the forums before.
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varuna2



Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 323
Location: Lemuria

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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lihin



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 470
Location: Mount Kailash

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:53 pm    Post subject: Virgo? Reply with quote

Hello Mr GR,

Many if not most, when discussing the so-called 'Age of Pisces', tend to ignore the opposite sign Virgo, domicile and exaltation of Mercury and, at full Moon, where the Luminary Luna, Queen of the Night, is posited when the Sun is in Pisces.

The great importance of formulated theological doctrine and formal abstract beliefs emphasised by at least the three Abrahamic religions (example: Maimonides) and perhaps by Heathen religions like Hinduism and Buddhism (perhaps knowledgeable readers might inform us) during this period may be a common attribute rather than restricted to one of the three.

Wednesday (Weyn = Mercury) may be analogous to the Hermetic tradition which is fact was, albeit somewhat distorted, perhaps by fear of prosecution by religious authorities, preserved and further developed mostly, but not exclusively, in Islamic society, above all in its minority branches, during the Mediaeval period.

In my humble opinion absolutist monotheism is simply a logical absurdity, The One being impossible without The Many and vice versa. Some philosophers / theologians were aware of this problem and tried to get round it with the help of 'The Divine Attributes'. Others took refuge in angelology, a bridge builder for astrologers, and had reluctantly to admit that Angels are of both sexes, perhaps of even four if one includes hermaphrodites and asexuals.

Best regards,

lihin
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GR



Joined: 14 May 2005
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Location: USA

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Virgo? Reply with quote

Hi lihin,

lihin wrote:
... The One being impossible without The Many and vice versa.


That I'll agree with, they being metaphysical arche and not merely nice ideas, so they'll simply continue to operate & manifest whether anyone likes it or not.
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waybread



Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 564
Location: Canada

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although I think the linked article is incorrect or overstated in some particulars, there is no doubt that Europe's pagan antecedants co-existed alongside Christianity, or that Christianity co-opted much of it. Christmas trees and Easter eggs, anyone? For example, with pagan deities like the Irish goddess Brigid being reconfigured as a Christian saint.

Astrology's pagan origins are undisputed.

Secularism kind of has to be unpacked in reference to its particular culture. If it is merely post-Christian or post-pagan, then it will have clear reference points back to its roots.
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varuna2



Joined: 20 Feb 2012
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Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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waybread



Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Varuna2, I and I think 99% of trained historians and theologians would take exception to your argument that the book of Deuteronomy is some kind of master plan for enslavement and world domination. I've read this book through several times, and I just don't see it. Put in historical context, it refers to a small minority of people who had scarcely emerged from the status of a clan to a small ethnic group, who were inconsequential in the context of the larger empires in which they lived.

Deuteronomy says what the descendents of Abraham were supposed to do to make things right between themselves and their God. It promises expansion and enlargement if they do these things, but then the rest of the Bible of which Deuteronomy is a part constantly shows how they fell short of meeting the required commandments. So no adherence, no expansion.

You probably know that there is a big debate (played out in the Biblical Archaeology Review and elsewhere) as to what extent the Pentateuch can be read as history vs. mythology. I think the truth lies somewhere in between, but is hard to discover.

One interesting thing about the ancient Jews is a belief that Abraham, a "wandering Aramean" was the founder of western astrology. You see this in Josephus. Of course, Babylonian archaeology suggests otherwise, but possibly an early patriarch from Babylon did transmit astrology to the ancient Jews. Many scholars and religious authors have tried to link the Old Testament accounts to astrological signs, such as the meaning of the 12 tribes.
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lihin



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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Location: Mount Kailash

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:51 pm    Post subject: Mars and Genocide Reply with quote

Good evening,

Dr. phil. Karl Marx described religion(s) as "opium of the people", therapeutic effects included, probably accurate in the vast majority of cases, regardless whether Heathen, Abrahamic or other religions are involved.

Genocide in ancient times was often the rule rather than the exception. Those who carried out a genocides in the names and on orders of the governments commanding them were deemed heroes. Heroism in Indo-European mythology can merit immortality.

In the stone ages anthropophagy is held to have been common practice in many if not most forests with competition for scarce resources. In the stone ages as well as in later ones, the descendants of strong victors replaced those of the weaker losers. Old and middle stone age (> 99 % of human history) population is estimated to have remained relatively stable around 5 mio. worldwide and did not explode until the introduction of agriculture and animal husbandry in the late stone age.

In more modern times, genocidal results of Western colonisation, e. g. in the Americas, were often ignored or considered something like 'collateral damage' beside the glorious spread of advanced Western civilisation including its main religion Christianity. Winners of wars have seldom or never been prosecuted for genocide, such trials being reserved for losers.

People inclined to restrict astrology to pastel colours might object to or feel uneasy about the following question:

What astrological configurations correspond to a) genocides (events), b) their doers and c) their victims?

Mars would seem eminently involved, for example angular in doers' charts, weak in losers' ones.

Joseph Stalin is 'credited' for having ordered the mass starvation of about 20 mio. (the exact number is unknown) Ukrainian peasants who resisted the collectivisation of agriculture in the 1930s. Stalin remained in office for 30 years, never exhibited apologies, regrets or remorse, and died a natural death at a ripe old age.

Best regards,

lihin
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Tzadde



Joined: 07 Apr 2011
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Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget Saturn as coldness and malice. In order to be active, I think Mars has to aspect Saturn one way or another. I agree with the fact that Mars has to be angular.

There are Lots of armies, murder and violence involving both Mars and Saturn.
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