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Attempt at delineating a relationship horary
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Pisces_girl



Joined: 14 May 2011
Posts: 25
Location: Europe

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:33 pm    Post subject: Attempt at delineating a relationship horary Reply with quote

The querent asked: ďWill x and I be in a relationship?Ē

The querent is Mercury in Libra in the 5th. Mercury is Via Combusta and under the Sunís beam. The later denotes fear or timidity.

The quesited is Jupiter in Gemini in the Ascendant. He is in detriment and peregrine, showing a person that is either weak or unable to act.

The Moon is peregrine in Aquarius in the 9th. She comes from a conjunction with Pars Fortuna. Both are disposed by exalted Saturn in the 5th, in a fateful degree.

The Moon will trine Mercury and then Jupiter. Mercury and Jupiter will form a trine too. Application by trine can be promising, but letís see if there is reception.

Reception between Mercury and Jupiter: Jupiter is in Mercury domicile, Mercury in the terms of Jupiter. I think reception by term is considered weak, but the reception by domicile is strong.

Secondary significators Venus (querent) and Sun (quesited): they are in each otherís domicile which is a good sign.

The matter begins according to the quality of the sign of the Ascendant (mutable) and continues according to the quality of the sign on the Midheaven (fixed).

I would like some experienced practitioners to give their opinions on the matter.

Also, what is the meaning of intercepted signs?

Here is the chart:



Pisces
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epurdue



Joined: 14 Nov 2007
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is based on a really quick glance but there are a couple of things:

First of all, the Moon is typically the only planet that is affected by the "Via Combusta". Mercury shouldn't be affected by that placement.

Jupiter, the quesited's significator, is in the 1st house, so I'd say it's a yes to the question. However Jupiter being afflicted tells me the quality of the relationship isn't going to be so great.

I don't have time to go through the whole analysis, but that's what popped out at me.
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Pisces_girl



Joined: 14 May 2011
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Mithra.

Mithra6 wrote:

First of all, the Moon is typically the only planet that is affected by the "Via Combusta". Mercury shouldn't be affected by that placement.

Jupiter, the quesited's significator, is in the 1st house, so I'd say it's a yes to the question. However Jupiter being afflicted tells me the quality of the relationship isn't going to be so great.



I didn't know Via Combusta affected only the Moon.

I agree, according to Bonatti, quesited in the Ascendant = easiest matter to perfect of all.
Anyway, Mercury applying to the quesited by trine and with reception also points to a favourable answer.

I'm not convinced about Jupiter's detriment implying a bad relationship. But most likely, I'm biased.

Disclosure: I'm the querent.
It took me a while to decide to post the chart on this forum. I wanted to keep it to myself as I was afraid of any negative interpretation becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy, if you know what I mean.

I'm ok with anyone comenting on the chart, but I've decided to not follow the thread for a while.

Whatever the outcome, I will update.

Take care,

Pisces
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pisces_girl,

As stated only Luna can be Via Combusta, Burned Path, last 15 degrees of Libra and first 15 degrees of Sco.

With Jupiter in the 1H and the Asc making such a tight applying cjt to Zeus, were the couple together when the query was made or are they soon to be residing in the querant's environment?

Looks like they are off and running unless other factors like Term, Face, Dignitys spell otherwise.

Clinton Garrett Soule
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Pisces_girl



Joined: 14 May 2011
Posts: 25
Location: Europe

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clinton Soule wrote:

With Jupiter in the 1H and the Asc making such a tight applying cjt to Zeus, were the couple together when the query was made or are they soon to be residing in the querant's environment?


Clinton Soule, I'm the querent and we were not together when the query was made, nor he has plans to reside in my environment that I am aware of.

Clinton Soule wrote:
Looks like they are off and running unless other factors like Term, Face, Dignitys spell otherwise.

Clinton Garrett Soule


All I can say is that in the two weeks since I made the query the situation has changed very much. We were practically strangers and now we are seeing each other as friends, or otherwise having some kind of comunication, on a daily basis.

But I wouldn't say we are a couple. It seems like we are stuck in the friend zone for now, but it has only been two weeks.

Time will tell.

Pisces
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cor scorpii



Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pisces_girl,

I think there's a reasonable chance of having a relatively satisfactory relationship with the desired partner because Mercury is applying to the ruler of the quesited in the ascendant by a harmonious trine - according to Masha'allah nothing may prohibit the desired outcome in the case of an immediate joining of the ruler of the ascendant/the Moon with the ruler of the quesited matter!

This even happens with mutual reception, because Mercury receives Jupiter into his domicile/triplicity, and is in turn received by Jupiter in his triplicty/term. This should ensure a rather quick, harmonious resolution of the matter and testify to its stability.

The Moon's application to Mercury in the 5th from the 9th by trine is also a very promising indicator, especially because the moon is waxing and is a general significator of the matter inquired about. Moreover, it is a nocturnal chart which accentuates the Moon's influence.I wonder if there's an issue of distance/travel/higher education involved, because of its position in the 9th.

On the negative side, Jupiter in its detrment is slowing down, close to its first station which may burden the entire issue with uncertainty and instability of the partner; ultimately, it may even destroy the matter after it has been attained.

As for Via combusta, I'm not so sure it afflicts only the Moon.

Abu Ma'shar has this to say:

With regard to the weakness of the planets, it is...if they are in the burnt path - this is Libra and Scorpio

CHARLES BURNETT,KEijI YAMAMOTO,MICHIO YANO - The abbreviation of the Introduction to Astrology, pp.55

Good luck,
Goran
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Pisces_girl



Joined: 14 May 2011
Posts: 25
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Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goran, thank you for taking the time to delineate the chart, it is very much appreciated.

cor scorpii wrote:
I wonder if there's an issue of distance/travel/higher education involved, because of its position in the 9th.


Yes, there is indeed an issue of higher education involved, since we met at university.

cor scorpii wrote:
On the negative side, Jupiter in its detrment is slowing down, close to its first station which may burden the entire issue with uncertainty and instability of the partner; ultimately, it may even destroy the matter after it has been attained.

As for Via combusta, I'm not so sure it afflicts only the Moon.

Abu Ma'shar has this to say:

With regard to the weakness of the planets, it is...if they are in the burnt path - this is Libra and Scorpio

CHARLES BURNETT,KEijI YAMAMOTO,MICHIO YANO - The abbreviation of the Introduction to Astrology, pp.55

Good luck,
Goran


I'm well aware of the warnings (i.e. Jupiter in detriment and Mercury in via combusta) but let's hope they don't end up denying the matter.

I wish you the best too.

Pisces
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Pisces_girl



Joined: 14 May 2011
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Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry it has taken me so long to update this thread.

The answer is no, we are not in a relationship.

Thank you to everyone who participated.

Pisces
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Morpheus



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was wondering. Was it really feasible to take the person asked about as represented by 7th house? He might have been 5th/11th house person or 9th house person.

When people ask me relationship questions I do not automatically assign 7th house to the person asked about (except couples). I ask them to tell me more about the person. Maybe the chart might show the person asked about as

Neighbor (3rd house)
Cousin (3rd house)
Friend with which ONLY pleasantries are exchanged like hobby, pub friend, drinking, sports or friendship with benefit. The person is not a confidant (5th house)
A friend (11th house)
A professor, lecturer, teacher, professional consultant, scientist (9th house)
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Morpheus


"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dream of in your philosophy" Shakespeare

"All that matters on the chessboard is good moves" Bobby Fischer
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Pisces_girl



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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Horatio/Gryffindor,

The 7th house is correct in my opinion.

He does not fit in any of the categories you mention. Besides, I was asking about a commited relationship.

Kind regards,

Pisces
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Morpheus



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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
He does not fit in any of the categories you mention. Besides, I was asking about a commited relationship.


(emphasized by me)

My mistake. I did not realize that the relationship at the time of asking the question was a committed one and there were legal and social consequences involved in case if anything went wrong.
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Morpheus


"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dream of in your philosophy" Shakespeare

"All that matters on the chessboard is good moves" Bobby Fischer
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Pisces_girl



Joined: 14 May 2011
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gryffindor wrote:
Quote:
He does not fit in any of the categories you mention. Besides, I was asking about a commited relationship.


(emphasized by me)

My mistake. I did not realize that the relationship at the time of asking the question was a committed one and there were legal and social consequences involved in case if anything went wrong.


Horatio, there's a misunderstanding here. There was no commited relationship at the time of asking the question, as you initially understood. In fact, we were beginning to know each other at the time.

What I meant is that, when inquiring if there would be a relationship between us, I specifically meant a commited one. I dind't have in mind a hookup or anything casual, which is not something I would do.

This is why I think the 7th house fits the question better than the 5th, but I see how you could be right in your thinking that 7th house applies more to already commited couples.

I hope everything is clear now, and if not, plase ask me anything you want to know.

Pisces
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Morpheus



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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let us again see the question.

When you asked the question, what you had in mind was a committed relationship. So, if we see Lords of 1st and 7th house they were applying in Trine. By all accounts it means 'Yes'. But it did not happen.

We have two options.

a) The chart did not give us a correct answer and
b) There is some mistake in choosing a significator.

I dont think that there is any genuinely asked question which can not be answered.

5th house is not a negative house. The relationship it covers are those in which we share 'Joys' but not 'Sorrows' (children are fruits of venus). So it could be sex partners, normal friends, pub friends, hobby friends, sport friends.

7th house is not a 'Lovey dovey' house. The people it represents are those who engage our egos in a conflict. They challenge us on equal basis. They confront us on equal basis. We lock our horns and try desperately to maintain a balance.

Partnerships
Marriage (Live in relationship etc etc)
Open Enemies
Wars

The context of the question determines a house and it has built in dynamics.

I want to marry a neighbor girl. Would I?

Will I (first house) marry (any applying aspect between us) marry a neighbor girl (3rd house).

Would my professor (9th house) think (any applying aspect) about me (1st house).

Did my brother (3rd house) talk nicely in the past (separating Trine) about me (1st house). Consider receptions also

Will my chineese table tennis partner girl (5th house) marry (applying good aspect) me (1st house). Consider receptions also
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Morpheus


"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dream of in your philosophy" Shakespeare

"All that matters on the chessboard is good moves" Bobby Fischer
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Pisces_girl



Joined: 14 May 2011
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your very detailed explanations.

It is possible that I chose the wrong significator, but even taking the 5th ruler (Mercury) for him and the Moon for myself, the answer would have been "yes" (the Moon trines Mercury).

I really don't wish to discuss this matter any further. I just wanted to update the thread because it's just fair that the ones who put time on this chart knew about the outcome.

I had build so many hopes of the answer being a "yes", I really believed it would happen. Now it just makes me sad to think about it and see how my hopes have been dashed.

Pisces
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Geoffrey



Joined: 09 Jul 2012
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is Lilly in his chapter XXI "To know whether a thing demanded will be brought to perfection yea or nay", page 125 "Things are also brought to pass when as the principal significators apply by ∗ or △ aspect out of good houses and places where they are essentially well dignified..."

Coley, in aphorism XX of his "Choice aphorisms to be considered in the judgement of horary questions" on page 133, "Be not too forward to give a positive judgement upon any question, although your significators be in conjunction, before you have seriously considered the sign they are in, whether it be a sign of their own nature or not, and whether they are said to delight therein; if so, it argues what they promise to be easily and speedily performed, otherwise the contrary."

Lee Lehman in "The Martial Art of Horary Astrology" relates how she once undertook a review of her answers to horary questions that had not 'come to pass' in an attempt to find where she was going wrong. The main factor in those answers that did not pan out was that the significators were not well dignified. In other words, they did not have the energy to follow through on the matter promised.

Perhaps the significators in this chart are just not in good enough shape to bring the matter to perfection...?

Geoffrey
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