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Car + Travel Horary
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leywand



Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 35
Location: Germany

Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:00 pm    Post subject: Car + Travel Horary Reply with quote

Hi all,

I am planning a trip from Germany to Scotland with my old car. So I asked
will my car make it through the trip or will it break down ?

Question asked:
17.8.08
13:23 EET -2
52N19, 8E22

Asz: 8 Scorpio in via combusta
Cusp2 in 2 Sagittarius, Lord2, Jupiter in bad shape in House 3 fits my old and rusty car..parked by the roadside at the moment.

Jupiter, POF and mercury forming a grand trine.

Venus has just separated from a trine with Jupiter, next aspect will be mercury trine jupiter, looks like a collection of light.
(mercury in jupiters detriment rules 7th and 10th house from 2nd, or my 11th or 8th.)
(venus also in jupiters detriment rules the cars 6th and 11th or my 7th and 12th)


Im quite confused by this picture...the grand trine doesnt look bad for the car, but mercury and venus ruling mainly unfriendy houses looks not so good (btw the trine of mercury is without reception).

What do you think, what will happen to the car ?



leywand
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 1358

Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi

Both Frawley and Lee Lehman suggest that you would use the first house for the question of will my car break in the trip, making a parallel with a vessel that you travel in.

Y
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leywand



Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 35
Location: Germany

Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks Y,

if I use L1, Mars as car, that doesnt look good as mars is about to leave virgo, entering libra the sign of its detriment. So the cars condition is about to get worse...

hmm..maybe I should look for a flight....
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Gunhilde



Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 799

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
hmm..maybe I should look for a flight....


I was going to say: whichever significator you use for the car, it doesn't look too encouraging, especially for a road trip! You could always *hire* a car, I guess...

GH Smile
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Ema



Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Posts: 206
Location: Slovenia

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks to me like your car is not so bad as you are scared Leery Your car is ruled by Saturn Lord of 3rd, which is essentially weak but accidentally strong and in an applying trine with Jupiter almuten lord of 9th of long journeys placed in your 3rd... Since Saturn receives Jupiter, the trine aspect looks to be quite promising, like the car being quite able to sustain the long journey. The trouble seems to be that you don't trust it Confused , since the Moon is in Pisces in an appyling opposition with Saturn (the car). This actually suggests that you'd probably like to get rid of the car, and that this intention could be carried out in approx. 7,5 weeks (possibly months) from the time of the question, or a little bit after that, say in the middle of October. When do you plan the journey? And why don't you consult a mechanic who could surely advise you in this matter?
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leywand



Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 35
Location: Germany

Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ema,

thanks for your reply..Im writing a bit late as I just came back from a 1000km trip with the car (not to scotland, this time)...so far all went fine..and a general check up was done 2 months ago...but its about time to change the motor-drivebelt now..and Im not sure if I should do it now or after the trip....(some say I should, some say I need not do it now..)...

Interresting that u use the 3rd house as car, I read about it somewhere but forgot where....so now we have 3 choices... Confused


But your reply hit the mark of the question when u mentioned that I am scared. Actually its not a holiday trip, but Im thinking of moving to scotland for university studies, but Im not really decided if I should do the university program. So the trip is actually planned (beginning of september) to check out the university and program and the city and then stay there and look for accomodation, etc. or drive back.
At the moment Im really scared at my car breaking down there because this would let me leave stranded in a city and a future I might not like ((strange phobia ?) the more so as the recent lunar eclipse was exactly on my 3rd house moon (which is ruler of my natal 8. house).

So now it seems to me that the question I posted was not only about the car...
Maybe I should frame a new question ? Confused
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Ema



Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Posts: 206
Location: Slovenia

Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Interresting that u use the 3rd house as car, I read about it somewhere but forgot where....so now we have 3 choices...


Deborah's book Houses: Temples of the Sky, which is definitely the best reference book on house rulerships, lists cars under the 3rd house. So does O. Barclay in her HAR. John Frawley disagrees, saying they belong to the 2nd house along with other personal posessions. I go for the 3rd house, on the grounds of my experience. O. Barclay wrote an article on the subject, (when she learnt that her student J.Frawley disagrees with her) in which she defends her view - it should still be somewhere on the net but right now I can't remember where.
Some people here mentioned the 1st house, which would, IMO, be relevant if you asked "will my journey be safe" or sth. But your question is different, it concerns solely the state of the car as the vehicle with which you intend to travel. That's different! Your journey could be such or such not only on account of the state of your car, but on account of the weather, for example. You could use the 1st house for your question if you were interested in the journey as a "safe thing" from other perspectives as well.
I suggested in the eralier post the time when I suspect your car may break down - or be sold or replaced by another.
As for the possibility of your entering the university, another question should be asked of course. Hope this helps Very Happy
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leywand



Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 35
Location: Germany

Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ema,

thank you very much....thats really helpful !
Concerning the 3 options: As house1 and house2 yield results that are not so optimistic... Ill go for house 3, too Laughing

Ill post the outcome....


leywand
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leywand



Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 35
Location: Germany

Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ema,

just some thoughts on the applying saturn-jupiter trine:

Quote:
Your car is ruled by Saturn Lord of 3rd, which is essentially weak but accidentally strong and in an applying trine with Jupiter almuten lord of 9th of long journeys placed in your 3rd... Since Saturn receives Jupiter, the trine aspect looks to be quite promising, like the car being quite able to sustain the long journey.


Did u consider that before the aspect perfects, the sun (lord 10) will bodily join saturn...might be a prohibition (police?)...? Or did u take into account that the moon will translate the light between saturn and jupiter before the sun-saturn conjunction ? Confused

this also relates to the "John Frawley says that orbs should be banished" thread in this forum...
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Ema



Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Posts: 206
Location: Slovenia

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He Leywand, what's police have to do with it? I mean, what was your original question, really? The condition of the car or the safeness of the journey generally? As I already said, if it was the latter, it would be wiser to take the 1st house as significator. If it was only the condition of the car, I think that the 3rd house, showing the car, isn't so seriously debilitated - also Jupiter in your 3rd suggests safeness of the car, because Jupiter in the 3rd can be viewed as co-signifying your car, and although it's retrograde this is not such a serious debility to suppose that it's going to break down. To suppose it will break down I'd need to see a more serious debility, like the ruler of the car essentially debilitated or in an applying suqare or opposition to a malefic. The applying aspect between Jupiter and Saturn only shows to me that the car is strong enough to sustain that journey. Of course, because both planets are slow, the aspect won't perfect so soon, but that's of no consequence since the question was not "will this and this happen"; I see that trine as encouraging, simply because it's a trine and the planets support each other by reception. Still I think it would be wise to make whatever repairs the mechanic suggested, because there are two "cautions" in the chart: Jupiter retro and the Moon applying to oppose Saturn. That's not good. I'd also check transits and progressions to your natal chart on the days(s) of the planned journey. If they show trouble, troble could find you. Still, as I said, I think that you're more scarred as needs be. Take precautions and then don't worry any more! That's at least what I would do.
As for orbs, I surely wouldn't look at further aspects in the chart. Translation doesn't exist here because the Moon has not reached the opposition with saturn yet. translation is a symbolic technique which there is in a chart or there isn't. Looking at all the possible aspects in the future only dims the picture. Again: for the answer to this question, aspects are not crucial, crucial is the state of the significators, as it is in the chart - because we are looking fot he "quality" of the car.
Orbs in general, of course, should not be banished from the view. I don't know exactly what JF meant by it, it was maybe a misunderstanding of some kind (I didn't follow that thread) but as soon as two planets come into the orb of an aspect (in a horary) this shows some sort of connection between the two, like to people (whom the planets signify) only superficially knowing each other if the orb is very wide, or being in a very close contact if the orb is very close. A plethora of meanings can arise from orbs, although only a "perfect" aspect, without orb, shows an action, or "completion of the matter" of course.
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leywand



Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 35
Location: Germany

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ema,

Im quite confident now, and planning goes well. My last post and question was mainly for academic reasons, just to better understand your reasoning.
I wasnt searching for another "hair in the soup".. Very Happy

And: Saturn closely trines cusp 3 (regiomontanus) pointing to a substantial integrity of the car.

The first perfecting aspect will be mercury (ruler of saturn and 11) trine jupiter, btw. if you take jupiter as cosignificator of the car (the more so as jupiter rules 2..the car in its property aspect, i.e. before the trip)..this could mean that a friend makes some repairs before the trip....and mercury in jupiters detriment-> Ill have to pay for it.

Still I find it interesting that sun is applying to saturn (car) and the conjunction will be saturns first aspect, except mooncontacts.... (the car will break down (as most cars do) sometime in 15 degrees..time units..but probably (hopefully) after the scotland trip).

thank you for this entertaining exchange Thumbs up

leywand Very Happy
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Ema



Joined: 14 Aug 2008
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Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for time units, there's 7 degrees and 46 minutes from Moon to opp. Saturn, which IMo translates into weeks (mutable sign an angular house), and because the Moon is speeding its motion that's a little less than 8 weeks, around October 10th, I guess, but let's see what happens... Where did you get 15 degrees? Have you spotted something elese? Wishing you luck! Ema.
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leywand



Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 35
Location: Germany

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its 15 degrees from sun to saturn, but as the question was only about the scotland trip, Im not sure if I can extend my interpretation this way about my cars fate (15 degrees till sun conjoins saturn) from this chart and question. Anyway Saturn will soon be entering combustion, maybe that should be taken into account...but I guess thats all too far fetched and beyond the original question)

BTW..Can you guess my cars colour from the chart ?
(I wont ask for the brand , type and other technical details...lol )

Laughing
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leywand



Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 35
Location: Germany

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found the article of Olivia Barclay concerning cars :

http://www.qhdc.org/barclay/car.htm
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Ema



Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Posts: 206
Location: Slovenia

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
BTW..Can you guess my cars colour from the chart ?
(I wont ask for the brand , type and other technical details...lol )



Hm... That's tough Sick Every planet and every house and every sign has a different colour. Maybe dark something? (saturn) Dark red? (saturn in 10th) As for the brand, I think it should be some traditional, old and "proven" brand, like Volkswagen for example. I'm really curious! Leery
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