Question on Profections

1
My understanding is that profections are what are considered to activate planets in traditional astrology. The activated planet is the time lord for the year, which is the ruler of the sign where the ascendant is profected, plus any planets that are in the same sign as the time lord and/or in a sign the time lord rules. Is that correct?

For example, let's say I am in a sixth house profection year. (I actually was last year.) My sixth sign is Gemini. That makes Mercury my time lord for the year, and also activates Venus, because I have Venus in Virgo (along with Mercury) and Mars, which I have in Gemini.

My question: does that also activate houses ruled by Mars or Venus and planets placed in them? What about houses and planets ruled by those planets? How far down the line does it go?

This year is much simpler: seventh house profection, only one planet in the seventh sign, no planets in the houses it rules, and no other traditional planets with the ruler of my seventh. If I understand profections correctly, my activated planets right now are Moon (time lord for the year, ruler of the seventh) and Saturn (in the seventh), and my activated houses are the seventh, the twelfth (moon placement), and the first and second (ruled by Saturn). No planets in Capricorn or Aquarius, and nothing in Sag besides the moon (except Neptune, which doesn't count traditionally). Unless a planet transiting one of those signs is activated even if it wouldn't be otherwise?

Thanks,
https://waveadvice.com/
Last edited by Nsmen on Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

2
Hi Nsmen - Chris Brennan is an expert on profections and has a website for a course offering, if you are interested. I believe he and others also use planetary profections, calculating times planets (or points, such as the lot of spirit) are brought forward, called Zodiacal Releasing, and he uses methods derived from texts that have been translated from the work of Valens. I watched the lectures a long time ago but I do not recall those planets being ruled by the profected planet being significant. Maybe he or others might comment on how important that is, because, like you said, it all begins to be a bit too much. I do recall those planets within the profected house being activated too but the house ruler is generally more significant. The primary activation is: the profected 1st house, the ruler of that house and the house it is in, other planets within the profected 1st house. The planet that rules the profected 1st should be looked at relative to the planets it aspects in the natal as well as transits. There are also subrulers of the houses that can sometimes be more helpful for pinpointing specific timing, but are not necessarily important to look at general trends.

To me, what becomes most obvious with profections even to a beginner is that you will notice years when your strong planets are being emphasized versus your more difficult ones via the ascendant lord. This can be very interesting to observe. I personally even notice how when the profected ruler changes sign or movement in transit that can impact future events very obviously. For example, if you had Mercury ruling a year and in transit it was doing well in Gemini or Virgo, life might run more smoothly and your mental aptitude might be better than normal. However, when Mercury enters Pisces or Sagittarius, or is retrograde, you may notice more problems or general Mercury issues, such as communication issues as well as issues surrounding the subject matter of the year and the house Mercury is in. This could also be altered by other planets in transit and where the profected planet is in transit to the profected houses. With the slow moving bodies, the year can sometimes be more consistent in how things are going. For anyone who knows their own chart well, you also tend to intimately know your own planets and the stuff they tend to bring with them when they are emphasized. I follow simplistic use of profections more so than other predictive methods.

One difficult thing with profections is deciding on using whole sign or not. I opted to not because my ascendant is at 15 degrees, in the middle of the sign and I consistently noticed changes halfway through my birth year.

3
hi hsmen,

welcome to skyscript! bob dylan is from duluth... i have been their once and found the place quite interesting..

ben dykes put out a few books, but one in particular that i found very informative on the use of profections.. https://www.bendykes.com/product/persia ... volutions/

as i understand it, using profection lords is in combination with what one focuses on in the the natal and solar return chart.. it is a combo of these 3 charts.. what is the profection lord? how is it situated in the natal, and solar return chart?

the focus is on the sign and ruler of the sign as i understand it.. i don't recall reading anywhere about having other planets in that same sign and the relevance of that... in the example you gave - 6th sign gemini and it was a 6th house gemini profection.. the focus is on gemini, not virgo.. the planets in virgo are less relevant as i understand the use of this technique.. i would just focus on mercury and gemini and not focus on virgo and planets in virgo.. that is how far down the line i would go... i would put greater emphasis on mercury and gemini in the solar return chart as well..

now, if mercury is in some type of aspect relationship to some other planet in the natal, or in the solar return, i would consider that relevant.. but, i think the best thing you could do would be to keep on asking questions like this and read as much as possible on the topic!

4
james_m wrote:hi hsmen,

welcome to skyscript! bob dylan is from duluth... i have been their once and found the place quite interesting..

ben dykes put out a few books, but one in particular that i found very informative on the use of profections.. https://www.bendykes.com/product/persia ... volutions/

as i understand it, using profection lords is in combination with what one focuses on in the the natal and solar return chart.. it is a combo of these 3 charts.. what is the profection lord? how is it situated in the natal, and solar return chart?

the focus is on the sign and ruler of the sign as i understand it.. i don't recall reading anywhere about having other planets in that same sign and the relevance of that... in the example you gave - 6th sign gemini and it was a 6th house gemini profection.. the focus is on gemini, not virgo.. the planets in virgo are less relevant as i understand the use of this technique.. i would just focus on mercury and gemini and not focus on virgo and planets in virgo.. that is how far down the line i would go... i would put greater emphasis on mercury and gemini in the solar return chart as well..

now, if mercury is in some type of aspect relationship to some other planet in the natal, or in the solar return, i would consider that relevant.. but, i think the best thing you could do would be to keep on asking questions like this and read as much as possible on the topic!
Which house system in the SR?
Im in an Asc profection and it falls in 8th house of the SR by whole sign house but close to the 7th cusp by quadrant

5
You can review Giuseppe Bezza here - 'The profection. How it is calculated, how it is interpreted'
http://www.cieloeterra.it/articoli.prof ... zione.html
Right-click to translate in English using Chrome

And here, his translation of Valens Book IV, 17-24
"Judgments on the profections of the stars, the horoscope and the four fates."
http://www.cieloeterra.it/testi.valente1/valente1.html

He uses Placidus not by Whole Sign but each house is made up of 2 temporal hours in Right Ascension. Check out the animation of the first link above. He then divides the tropical year into thirteen equal portions, each 28 days, 2 hours and fractions of hours in size, which is very close to using Lunar returns. The relationship between the Sun, the Moon and the ASC in the Profection Year and SR already gives you and indication on how the year will be, especially in relationship to the benefics and malefics.
-------------------

Essentially, when talking about the concept of 'Ruler of the Year', you need to consider 4 things

1) The ruler of the term the Primary Direction ASC is travelling (also called the divisor). The terms being unequal in each sign, they will represent years of life (taking 1 degree = 1 year of life) when you will be under the influence of that planet. For example, a child whose ASC was travelling in the Venus term of Gemini went into a school of art during these years.
2) The Lord of the Year by Profection is the general interpreter and gives the year its quality. Example: if Saturn is lord of the year, let's say the year will be poor. Now, if Saturn in the nativity is not configured to the benefics, poverty will be certain, but if he is configured to the benefics he observes whether these figures are also in revolution, since then the year will not be poor.
3) The Lord of the SR ASC and the ASC will indicate the strength when:
-- they are rulers of profections. Example: the Sun SR ASC in Leo or at the ASC reaches the term of Mars and its perfection is conjoined, opposite to the place of Mars of the nativity or its perfection reaches Aries or Scorpio.
-- they are angular in the Solar Return
-- they are configured to the Lord of the Year
4) Finally, the Planetary Ages or Firdar
Here you find 2 articles by Robert Hand
https://www.arhatmedia.com/firdar2.htm
https://www.arhatmedia.com/periods.htm
---------------
Astrologers do not agree on the same concept regarding Profections but you will need to discover by yourself. Mars entering Gemini tomorrow and staying there for a few months, we should be up to good debates in the community.
Blessings!

6
Ouranos wrote:You can review Giuseppe Bezza here - 'The profection. How it is calculated, how it is interpreted'
http://www.cieloeterra.it/articoli.prof ... zione.html
Right-click to translate in English using Chrome
There is actually an English translation by a human being (what's more, an astrologer, Margherita Fiorello) here:
http://www.cieloeterra.it/eng/eng.artic ... zione.html

Bezza's take on calculating profections differs from nearly everyone's, although if memory serves, ibn Ezra mentioned the same method.

My own Annual Predictive Techniques addresses the traditional use of profections in relation to primary directions and the annual revolution/solar return.
https://astrology.martingansten.com/

7
Bezza's take on calculating profections differs from nearly everyone's, although if memory serves, ibn Ezra mentioned the same method.
Do you imply that there were several methods used for calculating Primary Directions?

Quotes from your book, Part 1, excellent in many regards:
"The technique of the "perfectio" is present in all the great Greek-speaking astrologers, in the absence, however, of a specific technical term that defines it. With the sole exception of Vettio Valente, who dedicates almost all of the fourth book of his anthologies to this technique."
That makes one.

In chapter 4, you mention that Ptolemy has a brief chapter on profections.
"Although most medieval Arabic authors favoured Ptolemy's mathematically consistent method of directing over earlier, cruder methods, they differ to some extent from his approach to interpretation."
But we are still not departed from Ptolemy's method.

"The Placidus method advocates a return to Ptolemy's semi-arc system but also created his own position-circle method, meant as simplified version of that system."
Ptolemy again with an adjustment.

"Even on the Indian side, primary directions seem not to have made it to India in the first wave of transmission, which occured in the early centuries of the Common Era and from the influence of the Perso-Arabic cultural area, directions did briefly enter India but wer not properly understood."
Back to square one.

The Placidus method with a return to Ptolemy's semi-arc system with a twist on his own position-circle method is a "simplified version of that system."
This is the only claim of Bezza.

And thanks for the translation in English by Margherita Fiorello.
Blessings!

9
Sorry for the confusion Martin. I did ask my question incorrectly.

Bezza's Profection method suggests to progress the rising degree, not of 30 degrees on the Ecliptic but on the Equator, which is 2 hours of Right Ascension in the diurnal movement clockwise, representing one Placidian House per year.

In the translation of Fiorello, Bezza says:
"In support of my thesis I quote just one passage of Ibn Ezra (Opera fo. 57v) in which we are informed that in the calculation of the spaces of "perfection" (that in the Latin version are translated by a calque from Arabic intihâ': "finis", "signum finis"), it is necessary to operate with the tables of the right and oblique ascensions. This statement infers that for those places of the geniture which do not culminate or rise, it will be necessary to use both, or rather the mixed ascensions."
And he does provide many example charts to sustain his theory.
----------
From my understanding, people disagree on the methods. Which are Whole Sign, 30 degrees on the Ecliptic or 2 hours of Equatorial time.
One way to test it quickly is to look at those who have a significant planet late in a sign on an intermediate House cusp and far from being the same degree of the ASC and see when during the year an event of the nature of that planet occurs. Something that could also show up consistently every 12 years. And I see that more often with Bezza's method. For in Bezza's method, this would normally happen at the beginning of the Profected year.
----------
My first approach with Profections was with Junctin de Florence and my teacher said that at 1 year old, the ASC was on the cusp of the 12th House.
Depending on how you look at it, it is also true to say that the profected ASC will progress in the 2nd House.
According to you, what importance do you give to the ASC moving clockwise versus the ASC moving counterclockwise in the annual profection? And what difference do you see?

Appreciate your feedback,
Ouranos
Blessings!

10
Right, so Bezza cites ibn Ezra's take on profections, which is basically to treat them like primary directions, only moving 30 times as fast. I don't know any other author who does that, but directing by quadrant houses, so that the year when you turn 1 (or 13, or 25, etc.) corresponds to the 2nd house cusp, etc., goes back a long way. It's there in Valens (though his examples only include angular houses) and in Abū Maʿshar, and the Indian author Balabhadra, writing about Perso-Arabic astrology in Sanskrit in the 17th century, mentions it as a variant method. Robert Zoller also advocated it.

(If you use Placidus houses, the quadrant-house method will be the same as the ibn Ezra/Bezza method, but none of the authors listed above did: they used what we call Porphyry or Alcabitius houses.)

Generally speaking, though, nearly every ancient and medieval author regarded profections as a symbolic motion along the zodiac/ecliptic. Some explicitly describe the motion as a gradual one, others don't, but as far as I know, nobody actually describes the sort of quantum leap by whole sign on each birthday that many astrologers today see as the norm; that's just an assumption based on an argument from silence ('degrees were never considered except when they are explicitly mentioned').

I have never seen any premodern author suggest profections moving backwards through the zodiac (that is, clockwise around the chart).
Last edited by Martin Gansten on Sun Aug 21, 2022 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
https://astrology.martingansten.com/

11
I have never seen any premodern author suggest profections moving backwards through the zodiac (that is, clockwise around the chart).
But it's there. All the time. When you move the profected ASC to the next Sign or House depending on your system choice, your natal ASC is moving or staying so to speak in the 12th House. It's always hard to think as you are aware of it what is actually moving, the Houses or the Signs.
From what I have seen, people put too much importance on the Profected ASC for if nothing is happening in that House or Sign or even by aspect, it is easy to forget that Hey! did you look at the Sun or the Moon or the Lots where maybe all the action is taking place. Or did you check the years when the Profected Mars has been entering the place of Saturn
Blessings!

12
Ouranos wrote:But it's there. All the time. When you move the profected ASC to the next Sign or House depending on your system choice, your natal ASC is moving or staying so to speak in the 12th House. It's always hard to think as you are aware of it what is actually moving, the Houses or the Signs.
Yes, the degree that was natally on the ascendant will keep moving by the primary motion: that is what was traditionally meant by the converse direction of the ascendant, for astrologers who considered that. But as I said, I have not seen anyone suggest using profections that way.
From what I have seen, people put too much importance on the Profected ASC for if nothing is happening in that House or Sign or even by aspect, it is easy to forget that Hey! did you look at the Sun or the Moon or the Lots where maybe all the action is taking place. Or did you check the years when the Profected Mars has been entering the place of Saturn
Yes, there can be multiple significators in profections as well as directions. Not everyone would agree on using the non-luminary planets (though if I recall correctly, Valens does), but the angles, luminaries and Lot(s) are uncontroversial. As always, though, the potential risk is information overload, making actual prediction difficult.
https://astrology.martingansten.com/