Second Marriage in a Horary

1
Hey all,

Are you familiar with methods to ascertain a second marriage / husband / wife from a horary chart?
And more especially, can we get to the second marriage using derived houses? Seems like an interesting dilemma to me.

I've read on another forum that we should look for the 3d from the 7th but that would be the brother or sister of the spouse as far as I understand it.

We could use some of Anthony Louis' methods:
Second triplicity lord of the 7th.
Second planet by almuten strength from the degree of the DSC.

Anything else you have in mind?
https://www.gurastro.com

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If a querent asks about his/her spouse, no traditional source that I know of states that you should differentiate between a first, second, etc., marriage as a general thing. Of course, in a question that specifically concerns different spouses (or potential spouses), you would need to make a distinction. I suppose triplicity rulers could be useful then, if there are no other obvious clues from the chart (such as two or more planets in the 7th, or one planet occupying it and another ruling it).
https://astrology.martingansten.com/

4
As mentioned by Martin, I would not make any distinction between a 1st, 2nd etc.
And something would show up with the ASC and ruler in terms of confusion regarding the question like maybe Uranus or Neptune or MercuryR or the ruler Combust etc.
I've read on another forum that we should look for the 3d from the 7th but that would be the brother or sister of the spouse as far as I understand it.
This refers to a 5th House way to look at 2 potential candidates. Before being your husband/wife (7th), this person is a lover (5th). So one will be represented by the 5th House, the other one by the 5th from the 5th (9th House). If a 3rd lover, the 5th from the 5th from the 5th (ASC). Ask questions to the querent to see which one best fit the potential lovers.
And one thing I always look at is the Direction of the quesited. If Retrograde, he is not looking forward but over his shoulders especially with Saturn, he has responsibilities, not totally free.

I read somewhere that Krishnamurti has said that the only rule to be followed is to note the sub-lord of the 7th cusp. If the 7th sub-lord is either Mercury or any planet occupying a dual sign or deposited in the constellation of a planet in the dual sign, there will be more then one marriage. But I am not a specialist of Indian astrology and cannot confirm this and cannot say if this applies to Horary.
Blessings!

5
Martin: Thx.
I'm familiar with 2 planets in a given house (7th in this case) and then ascribing each of them by likeness to the people involved.
Frawley uses it too.
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With Triplicity rulers: would you just use the 1st trip ruler as 1st marriage partner and the 2nd as 2nd marriage partner et cetera.
[say: 7th cusp is Aquarius in a night chart which would make Merc signifying the 1st partner, Saturn the 2nd partner and Jupiter the 3d partner]
This would be, more or less, in accordance with what al-Andarzagar propagated, though I don't think he mentions marriage partners in his text.
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With a planet in the 7th and another one ruling the 7th, to which would you give the first marriage partner and to which the 2nd?
Thought about it a little, and I can't seem to establish a logical process by which I would decide...


Ouranos:
This question stems from me examining a chart of a woman who is in a seemingly bad marriage. Made me wonder how her second marriage would look like if she were to divorce her husband. It's a natal chart, I've to admit, but horary methods may be useful there as well. Horary is versatile.
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The 5th vs. 7th house approach is interesting. Sometimes, admittingly, lovers don't turn into an additional marriage.
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My familiarity with vedic is very limited but this methods sounds interesting.
It reminds me that a double-bodied sign on the cusp of the 7th could mean the same thing according to some horary authorities (forgot which).
What is a 'sub-lord' btw?
https://www.gurastro.com

6
Sub Lord

In Indian astrology they divide each of the 27 constellation into nine parts called Sub Lord (each part owned by one planet). This gives total 243 subs.
Here is the table below
http://www.jupitersweb.com/star--sub-lord-table.html

Martin would be a better teacher on this than me.

As for your question regarding which partner would be represented by the Triplicity Rulers if more than one partner, it would have to do with the age the marriage is happening. Other factors to consider to help out: Planetary Ages (Firdaria), circumambulation through the Bounds, Planets becoming Angular by Primary Directions, Profections and Classical use of the Triplicity Rulers as they pertain to different ages. Below is how Deborah Houlding explains it with examples.
https://www.skyscript.co.uk/triplicities.html
Blessings!

7
I've never actually used triplicity rulers in a question like that. If someone asked me about leaving one relationship and entering another, my first reaction would be to look for separating and applying aspects formed by the Moon and/or the ruler of the Asc. But every chart is different, so I think the main thing is to be guided by what is actually there.

In a nativity, I would first try to determine whether the chart indicates more than one marriage, and then look at what was going on by direction etc.
https://astrology.martingansten.com/

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Dima Gur wrote:Martin:
In a nativity, I would first try to determine whether the chart indicates more than one marriage
How? If may ask.
Yes, that's a fair question, and not an easy one to answer categorically, since marriage is a social institution that will vary with time and culture. Many of the rules in traditional texts were formulated in Late Antiquity or the Middle Ages, and even Ptolemy mentions the need for considering cultural differences with regard to marriage customs. But in most culturally 'western' societies today, middling afflictions to the significators of marriage (primarily the 7th house and its ruler) tend to play out as divorce rather than early widow(er)hood. Coupled with things like two or more planets in the 7th and/or movable signs, that may indicate remarriage. (I personally consider all these factors in a sidereal zodiac.)

It would be interesting to hear the observations of others on this topic, but perhaps more suitably in some other forum, such as Nativities or Traditional?
https://astrology.martingansten.com/

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- The institution itself of marriage as it relates to the social planets (JU and SA) and the 4th/10th axis. Are they linked to the 7th in some way? Outer planets Uranus, Neptune and Pluto can live happily outside of marriage. Things that were not conceivable in society before their discoveries.
- And generally, Sun and Mars for women, Moon and Venus for men.
- More than 1 planet in the 7th
- Direct and Fast = early marriage or to a young person
- Cadent or fruitful signs points to more than 1 marriage or union
- The Moon linked to the 7th = changes in marriage but well aspected to the Sun = welcomed changes. Not surprising that we find Saturn Exalted in Libra. Marriage requires stability and commitment.
- Detriment of Fall in House 3 or 9 = marriage to a foreigner or in another country. If receiving bad aspects = widowhood. Keep in mind that planets linked to marriage natally in Cadent houses can become Angular by Primary Directions. But cadent houses can also indicate relationships to employees, servants, behind the scene (angular).
Blessings!

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Ouranos wrote:Outer planets Uranus, Neptune and Pluto can live happily outside of marriage. Things that were not conceivable in society before their discoveries.
Welllllll... The Moon [...] signifies, in nativities of men, [...] living together or legal marriage (Valens, Anthologies, I 1,4). Live-in relationships without formal marriage were certainly more universally frowned upon in the modern west even decades after the discovery of Pluto in 1930 (not to mention Uranus in the late 18th century and Neptune in the mid-19th) than they were in the classical world.
https://astrology.martingansten.com/