Second Marriage in a Horary

Dima Gur · Joined: 12 Dec 2014 Posts: 72 Location: Israel

Hey all,

Are you familiar with methods to ascertain a second marriage / husband / wife from a horary chart?
And more especially, can we get to the second marriage using derived houses? Seems like an interesting dilemma to me.

I've read on another forum that we should look for the 3d from the 7th but that would be the brother or sister of the spouse as far as I understand it.

We could use some of Anthony Louis' methods:
Second triplicity lord of the 7th.
Second planet by almuten strength from the degree of the DSC.

Anything else you have in mind?
_________________
https://www.gurastro.com

johannes susato · Joined: 04 Jan 2009 Posts: 1614

What do you mean by

"a second marriage / husband / wife"

exactly?

Martin Gansten · Moderator Joined: 05 Jul 2008 Posts: 1553 Location: Sweden

If a querent asks about his/her spouse, no traditional source that I know of states that you should differentiate between a first, second, etc., marriage as a general thing. Of course, in a question that specifically concerns different spouses (or potential spouses), you would need to make a distinction. I suppose triplicity rulers could be useful then, if there are no other obvious clues from the chart (such as two or more planets in the 7th, or one planet occupying it and another ruling it).
_________________
https://astrology.martingansten.com/

Ouranos · Joined: 28 Mar 2020 Posts: 934

As mentioned by Martin, I would not make any distinction between a 1st, 2nd etc.
And something would show up with the ASC and ruler in terms of confusion regarding the question like maybe Uranus or Neptune or MercuryR or the ruler Combust etc.

Dima Gur · Joined: 12 Dec 2014 Posts: 72 Location: Israel

Martin: Thx.
I'm familiar with 2 planets in a given house (7th in this case) and then ascribing each of them by likeness to the people involved.
Frawley uses it too.
--
With Triplicity rulers: would you just use the 1st trip ruler as 1st marriage partner and the 2nd as 2nd marriage partner et cetera.
[say: 7th cusp is Aquarius in a night chart which would make Merc signifying the 1st partner, Saturn the 2nd partner and Jupiter the 3d partner]
This would be, more or less, in accordance with what al-Andarzagar propagated, though I don't think he mentions marriage partners in his text.
--
With a planet in the 7th and another one ruling the 7th, to which would you give the first marriage partner and to which the 2nd?
Thought about it a little, and I can't seem to establish a logical process by which I would decide...

Ouranos:
This question stems from me examining a chart of a woman who is in a seemingly bad marriage. Made me wonder how her second marriage would look like if she were to divorce her husband. It's a natal chart, I've to admit, but horary methods may be useful there as well. Horary is versatile.
--
The 5th vs. 7th house approach is interesting. Sometimes, admittingly, lovers don't turn into an additional marriage.
--
My familiarity with vedic is very limited but this methods sounds interesting.
It reminds me that a double-bodied sign on the cusp of the 7th could mean the same thing according to some horary authorities (forgot which).
What is a 'sub-lord' btw?
_________________
https://www.gurastro.com

Ouranos · Joined: 28 Mar 2020 Posts: 934

Sub Lord

In Indian astrology they divide each of the 27 constellation into nine parts called Sub Lord (each part owned by one planet). This gives total 243 subs.
Here is the table below
http://www.jupitersweb.com/star--sub-lord-table.html

Martin would be a better teacher on this than me.

As for your question regarding which partner would be represented by the Triplicity Rulers if more than one partner, it would have to do with the age the marriage is happening. Other factors to consider to help out: Planetary Ages (Firdaria), circumambulation through the Bounds, Planets becoming Angular by Primary Directions, Profections and Classical use of the Triplicity Rulers as they pertain to different ages. Below is how Deborah Houlding explains it with examples.
https://www.skyscript.co.uk/triplicities.html
_________________
Blessings!

Martin Gansten · Moderator Joined: 05 Jul 2008 Posts: 1553 Location: Sweden

I've never actually used triplicity rulers in a question like that. If someone asked me about leaving one relationship and entering another, my first reaction would be to look for separating and applying aspects formed by the Moon and/or the ruler of the Asc. But every chart is different, so I think the main thing is to be guided by what is actually there.

In a nativity, I would first try to determine whether the chart indicates more than one marriage, and then look at what was going on by direction etc.
_________________
https://astrology.martingansten.com/

Dima Gur · Joined: 12 Dec 2014 Posts: 72 Location: Israel

Martin:

Ouranos · Joined: 28 Mar 2020 Posts: 934

Dima Gur,
Thanks for the link
_________________
Blessings!

Martin Gansten · Moderator Joined: 05 Jul 2008 Posts: 1553 Location: Sweden

Ouranos · Joined: 28 Mar 2020 Posts: 934

- The institution itself of marriage as it relates to the social planets (JU and SA) and the 4th/10th axis. Are they linked to the 7th in some way? Outer planets Uranus, Neptune and Pluto can live happily outside of marriage. Things that were not conceivable in society before their discoveries.
- And generally, Sun and Mars for women, Moon and Venus for men.
- More than 1 planet in the 7th
- Direct and Fast = early marriage or to a young person
- Cadent or fruitful signs points to more than 1 marriage or union
- The Moon linked to the 7th = changes in marriage but well aspected to the Sun = welcomed changes. Not surprising that we find Saturn Exalted in Libra. Marriage requires stability and commitment.
- Detriment of Fall in House 3 or 9 = marriage to a foreigner or in another country. If receiving bad aspects = widowhood. Keep in mind that planets linked to marriage natally in Cadent houses can become Angular by Primary Directions. But cadent houses can also indicate relationships to employees, servants, behind the scene (angular).
_________________
Blessings!

Martin Gansten · Moderator Joined: 05 Jul 2008 Posts: 1553 Location: Sweden

Dima Gur · Joined: 12 Dec 2014 Posts: 72 Location: Israel

Martin
Here's the new thread in the nativities forum:
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=121960

Ouranus
Can you clarify what your list is about?
Different indications for number and/or types of marriages according to different chart factors, with a particular emphasis on the 7th cusp and its ruler?
_________________
https://www.gurastro.com

Ouranos · Joined: 28 Mar 2020 Posts: 934

Tanit3333 · Joined: 12 Jul 2017 Posts: 1232

Is this a question of currently being married and marrying someone at the same time as the current one, or marrying after the ending of a different marriage? If it is a polygamous relationship I would follow the above information but if one is just asking about a new marriage, you would use traditional rules of a relationship chart without involving such complexity. Or, if perhaps if one is comparing the current spouse to a new potential partner.

The same is true for any subject. For comparison, when one is looking for a new job they don't go to great lengths to analyze the current job and the new job. How many jobs does one have in their life and why does it matter when asking a horary? The only time I would compare is if it involved a move/great change or decision between two, in which case I would use a "stay or go" chart where the ascendant is the current situation and the 7th is the new one (and the derived houses represent the areas of life).

If this is simply a question of how many marriages/qualities of the marriage, many traditional authors have rules you can use. The natal chart is usually used for this but horary could be also. Lilly stated the following in Christian Astrology: