skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
The Life & Work of Vettius Valens
by Deborah Houlding
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

Roe v Wade

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Mundane & Financial Astrology
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Zosma



Joined: 11 Nov 2018
Posts: 272

Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:49 am    Post subject: Roe v Wade Reply with quote

Does anybody have the chart for when the historic Supreme Court decision was made?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 5293
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zosma wrote:
Quote:
Does anybody have the chart for when the historic Supreme Court decision was made?


Are you asking about the original decision in 1973 or the time of the decision reversing Roe vs Wade last week?

The original landmark Roe vs Wade decision was issued by the Supreme Court (SCOTUS) on January 22nd 1973. Lots of astrologers have been discussing this chart but to date noone seems to have the exact time the decision was issued so everyone is just using a 12.00pm time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roe_v._Wade

In regards the reveral of Roe vs wade last Friday (June 24th) week there has been some debate on the exact time when the SCOTUS issued its decision. The SCOTUS issues its decisions from 10am onwards. But there is discussion in astro forums whether the time should be 10.00am, 10.10am , or 10.11.

Those advocating 10am include Gary Lorentzen. However, the UK Guardian Newspaper and a CNN Journalist gave 10.10am. John Eshelman is using 10.11.

The debate is whether 10.10am was the exact time the decision was issued or whether this was how long they took to publicise a decision and put it out to the public on media outlets. However, there is a third source giving 10.10am from a person outside the SCOTUS building so it sounds to me like 10.10am or around then was when the decision was issued.

I have settled on a 10.10am time myself.

I am away from home at present but will post both charts for members later today.

Mark
_________________
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly


Last edited by Mark on Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:11 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Zosma



Joined: 11 Nov 2018
Posts: 272

Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Mark.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zosma



Joined: 11 Nov 2018
Posts: 272

Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That Venus /Mars conjunction in Capricorn just before the Aries ingress is playing out in more ways, Woman’s reproductive rights which had been constituted as law ( Capricorn)
needed to be corrected as rumours leaked about the Supreme Court decision when Venus conjoined Jupiter in late Pisces beginning of May sextile a retro Pluto in Cap. Two weeks later Mars conjunct Jupiter in Aries. Confirming the protection (Jupiter)of the early stages of life
(Mars in Aries)
Sun in cancer Jupiter in Aries mutual reception by exaltations
At the summer solstice period. Life is life.
Mars exact square when the ruling is made to the 22 degree Mars Venus conjunction earlier this year
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 5293
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are the charts for Roe vs Wade.

The original chart from 1973 (untimed) for January 22nd 1973



The chart for the SCOTUS reversal of the Roe vs Wade Decision on 24th of June 2022.



The two charts as a bi-wheel with the original decision in the inner wheel and reversal decision on the outer wheel.



Transiting Pluto is on the Mercury of the 1973 Roe vs Wade chart. Tr Mars is opposing the Uranus in the radix chart. Tr Mars is square the radix Jupiter. Tr Jupiter is separating from an opposition to Pluto.
_________________
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 5293
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Roe vs Wade reversal chart rather effectively illustrates the fundamental schism in US society on abortion today which is founded on deep seated contending religious, philosophical and political attitudes. Contrary to the way some astrologers have commented on this development I dont see this as a simplistic ' war on women' or a purely gender based conflict. There were plenty of pro-life women shouting outside the SCOTUS building last week. And plenty of men support a pro-choice stance. I would argue the conservative forces driving this are graphically represented by Saturn (Lord 7) opposing the will of many of the US public (Leo). As you point out Saturn Rx is squaring the nodes. All this rather well reflects the conservative controlled SCOTUS. In the current Cancer ingress Ingress Saturn Rx is on the MC. The Moon is of course the other indicator of public opinion. Its in the 9th by sign division 10th by WSH. The 9th representing this legal decision. One could argue the exalted Moon in Taurus represents the ascendancy of the pro life position since a benefic disposited Moon fits that position. (This view goes back to Ptolemy). However, public opinion is obviously divided and the fact the Moon disposits the 12th house (self doing) represents the views of many of the US public on where this decision is taking America. However, Uranus is applying to conjunct the NN and even closer to the Mean Nodes. Uranus on the nodes is powerful. Its worth recalling the American Revolution started with Uranus partile square the transiting nodes.
_________________
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
Posts: 940

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to forget Sedna in the picture here at 29 Tau 29 MC squaring Saturn R on the cusp of the 7th.
Article by Alan Clay first published in The Astrological Journal 2010 / The Astrological Association of Great Britain
https://www.astro.com/astrology/aa_article190401_e.htm
--------------------------
"I draw the connection (of Sedna) with Ceres, because they both likely have internal oceans, so they speak of a nurturing process."
"The varying legends each give different rationales for Sedna's transcendence, but in each version, her father, or 'the people', take her to sea in a boat and throw her overboard. In each she clings to her old life and her fingers are chopped off before she lets go. And in each version she sinks to the bottom of the sea, becoming the sea goddess, worshipped by hunters who depend on her goodwill to supply food."
"Sedna operates on a far vaster scale, so we may find that Sedna is the higher octave of Ceres – where the spiritual security and sense of place on Earth with Ceres is transmuted into transpersonal nurturing of our spirituality and sense of place in the evolutionary cycle with Sedna."
_________________
Blessings!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 4087
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think it is a question of religion and ideological framework connected to religion or philosophy and etc. etc.... 9th house issue as i see it.. depending on all this - saturn and jupiter and any of the planets in the 9th house would feed into this... speaking as a '''non american'', you could also consider the usa pluto return being activated here as well...

thanks for pulling up the charts mark!!

also - my friend aj also points out that this would also put a focus on the 5th house of children too, which i also agree with... and - " Jupiter rules children, an unusual karaka for Saturn is happiness from a woman and those born outside of caste or from adultery."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zosma



Joined: 11 Nov 2018
Posts: 272

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[img[/img]
Interesting to see the USA ingress chart for 2022 valid until june 21 as a mutable ascendant.

The besieged Venus in Aquarius in 9th house, the woman's movement fought for rights (Venus in Aquarius) set back, Venus ruling the 12th undoing & 5th children, or in vedic 12th bed pleasures & 5th children,
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 5293
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zosma wrote:
Quote:
Interesting to see the USA ingress chart for 2022 valid until june 21 as a mutable ascendant.


Actually, the traditional authorities stemming from the Perso-Arabs suggested you examine all four quarters if the Aries ingress has a cardinal ASC. You examined just the Aries ingress and Libra ingress if the ASC was mutable. And finally if the ASC was fixed you only studied the Aries ingress for the whole year.

However, I have found many examples where this doesn't apply and I always examine all 4 quarters. Its worth remembering the Perso-Arabs didn't develop ingress charts. You find reference to them by Ptolemy in his Tetrabiblos. He notes that different cultures started the year with different cardinal signs with the Egyptians using Cancer. This was no doubt a reference to the Sothic year and the heliacal rising of Sirius.

I think the very radical nature of the US Cancer ingress for 2022 validates the view I have expressed that the Perso-Arabic stance is over rigid. I will examine that later. For now though lets look at the Aries Ingress and compare it to the Roe vs Wade reversal as a transit to it. It can be very useful to track transits to ingress charts.



We see in the chart the Tr Moon is close to the Aries Ingress Uranus picking up the public impact of a story that travelled across the world. Tr Saturn Rx is squaring the ingress Nodes. Simultaneously the TR nodes are squaring the ingress Saturn. A double dose of Saturn nodal action! Saturn is both Lord 8 and 9 in the ingress chart. This reflects the dramatic impact of the Supreme Court (SCOTUS) decision and for pro-choice supporters its traumatising effect -Lord 8. From a pro-lifers position you could argue the court was deciding quite literally on life and death. Tr Venus (Lord 5 and 12) is square the MC. Venus is the natural significator for women but here it rules children (5th house) and self undoing (12th house). This picks up the themes of the decision for both sides of the debate ie both the pro-life and pro-choice advocates positions. TR Uranus is applying to square Saturn. Using fixed orbs (Sahl) Tr Mars is within orb of an opposition to the Moon and a square to the POF and Pluto.

Now lets proceed to examine the US Cancer Ingress (2022) which is also very revealing.



No prizes for spotting the dominant feature in the chart. That Saturn Rx near the MC. Its a graphic representation of the power of the conservative dominated US Supreme Court (SCOTUS) controversially rolling back previous laws.

The Roe vs Wade reversal has obviously gained International attention. However, the Court has recently issued two other highly important rulings reversing the legal position on other issues.

On Thursday June 23rd The SCOTUS struck down The New York gun law (dating from 1911) which required anyone wanting to carry a handgun in public to prove that they had a “proper cause” to do so. The decision in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v Bruen rendered the law an unconstitutional violation of the second amendment right to bear arms.

This Supreme Court ruling has opened the door for almost all law-abiding Americans to carry concealed and loaded handguns in public, after the conservative majority struck down the New York law.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/23/us-supreme-court-new-york-law-gun-control

Then on Friday, June 30th the SCOTUS he court released a ruling in West Virginia v EPA limiting the Environmental Protection Agency’s power to regulate emissions from fossil fuel-fired power plants, in a major environmental case with far-reaching impacts. This has been classified a “devastating” outcome by environmental lawyers, climate scientists and activists alike. One with far-reaching implications for the future of not just the ISA but the world.

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2022/jun/30/supreme-court-ruling-epa-west-virginia-climate-experts-activists-lawyers

The Moon in Aries in the chart shows the anger of pro-choice activists and Feminists in the US. Its interesting that this chart is again Gemini rising. It repeats the theme of the Aries ingress with Venus the natural significator for women ruling the WSH 5th (children) and 12th (self undoing). Venus is here in the 12th house trine Pluto in the 8th. Fitting the disruptive nature of this period Uranus is applying to conjunct the North Node.

Just one final observation. This Cancer ingress has some interesting links to the US 4th of July chart since the ingress ASC degree is on the Mars of that chart and the Mercury close to the position of Uranus. I have displayed the popular Sibly chart as an example of what I mean. TR Saturn is also conjunct the US Sibly and Scorpio rising chart Moon.



Mark
_________________
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
Posts: 940

Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Mark,

Secondary Progression SU and ME of the 1973 chart have reached the opposition to NE of the Sibly chart and is being transited by Neptune right now adding to the confusion with this decision.
The Progressed Moon is at 7 Cancer where the NM took place.
_________________
Blessings!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zosma



Joined: 11 Nov 2018
Posts: 272

Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Mark; especially for clarifying the ingress rules,
I notice the Sibly moon is the final dispositer ( apologies up front for any technicalities I get wrong & no doubt will be corrected by more astute minds than my mine ) & from my perspective I would give the moon the rulership of the American constitution, On the grounds of its Co ruler ship of the 3rd house together with Saturn / Uranus, & so we now have the Saturn Uranus square starting to move over the US moon. Supreme Court is effectively reinstating what the founding fathers constituted. We are moving into a second American revolution where federal law is being found to have no true foundation on which to stand in light of the constitution. In addition to the abortion ruling there was also a ruling on gun law in New York which after 100 years was found to be in breach as well as the ruling on the coach who was penalised for praying with his team mates I understand there was a ruling that it was within his rights to practice his faith. These & the near future ruling will have massive effects on what politicians will be able to do ; in that they have over stepped the limits ( Saturn) & laws need to be overturned ( Uranus) to realign with the constitution. So as Saturn transits the Sibly moon it’s time to give strength to the original constitution overturning federal over reach.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Mundane & Financial Astrology All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated