Simultaneous occurrences of receptions and hard aspects

1
Hello everybody,

it often happens that in a natal chart, there is a hard aspect between two planets while at the same time, one of the planets gives the other one a reception, i.e. by domicile or by exaltation.

According to the dignities table, a hard aspect is a debiliating factor while a reception is beneficial.

I’ve looked at several natal charts and wondered which factor is more important. I’ve seen a chart of a woman with Venus in Aries whose Venus was getting a reception but she wasn’t pretty or married or having children (hint: birth time is unknown).

I've seen a natal chart of another woman (also with Venus in Aries) whose Venus is getting a reception while being in a hard aspect as described above and she is quite pretty actually (hint: here, birth time is also unknown. Also Venus is in mutual reception by domicile to a third planet (by opposition) but Venus is also otherwise affliced (retrograde), so the charts are not comparable).

Moreover, I’ve seen natal charts of celebrities which contained such a chart pattern and they are, nevertheless or just because of that, very successful – for example: Mark Zuckerberg (Pluto opposite Mercury in Aries) or the Wallstreet-trader Steve Cohen (Saturn opposite Mercury in Gemini).

What is your opinion on this subject?

P.S.: just as a side note: i regard Pluto as a domicile ruler of Aries and Scorpio. Here, opinions may differ.

2
Interesting post FatedWayfarer,
According to the dignities table, a hard aspect is a debilitating factor while a reception is beneficial.
A hard aspect is not a debilitating factor, it is the strongest factor to be successful. Why? Because people with hard aspects are trained to fail and meet challenges. They succeed best in a career where there is competition. They are motivated under pressure and in front of an obstacle.

Astrology teaches us that a debilitated planet (Detriment or Fall) is more damaging. My piece of advice to anyone with debilitated planets is 'Don't try to fit in the social norm, be yourself with your imperfections.'
Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken. Mr. Perfect is very boring after all.

It is possible that your best friends will be outcasts with a debilitated planet in your 11th House. Be happy! Nobody else will get to know these original spirits.
Maybe you will fall in love with someone nobody else wants with a debilitated planet in the 7th House. Be happy! You can laugh together against the world.

I have seen in Horary a case where the person fell in a coma from the Covid. She had Moon in Scorpio in trine with Mars in Cancer (Mutual reception). The doctors could not do anything for her but leave her in an artificial coma. For debilitated planets even with reception can lack the 'power to act.'

Yet, a debilitated planet does not lack resources as long as it does not conform to the norm.

Here is an interesting article by Blair Bogin where she gives some examples of what she calls "Detriment (sleepy planets) and Fall (messy planets)"
https://www.astro.com/astrology/opa_article220420_e.htm

- Lucille Ball with Mars in Taurus in the 5th (An oddball housewife who always gets into trouble)
- Eddie Murphy with Mercury in Pisces (Detriment) is in a grand trine with two other debilitated planets: a craggy Mars in Cancer and a ruthless Moon in Scorpio, which is a (mutually receptive) combination that gave Murphy the hilarious agility to bounce back with harsh, witty insults, known for his outstanding skill of slipping in and out of impersonations, "my mother says I never talked in my own voice."
- Charlie Chaplin a debilitated Moon in Scorpio right on the rising degree opposite a debilitated Mars in Taurus with his screen character constantly trying to survive a conflict with others.

What debilitated planets are teaching us is that nobody is perfect and it is perfect like that!

Best to you,
Ouranos
Blessings!

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(wanted to post this as a separate thread, but it seems to fit in well with this thread -- be it not related to mutual reception, but to successful people with seemingly bad planet positions)

I came across Cody Simpson's natal chart. He is both a talented and extremely successful singer, AND a world-class swimmer, training to qualify for the 2024 Olympics. Also good-looking and getting all the pretty girls.

Now look at his chart -- it seems the opposite of what I would expect -- and I would love to hear your opinions on his success:

Mars in detriment in Libra in a perfect opposition to Saturn!
Saturn c SN in fall in Aries!
Jupiter in fall in Capricorn!

Interestingly, he has 5 planets in Capricorn

Image

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Interesting chart with this Mars/Saturn opposition
Day chart with Mars counter to Sect and Saturn in Sect
Part of Mother conjunct Saturn
So his early learning boundaries process symbolized by Saturn (in Sect) is a positive influence.
In an interview he said “I owe a lot of my humility to these women. My ability to make good decisions comes from the way I was raised: I don’t want to disappoint mom or my grandmothers,???

Mars (ruling his 10th) in opposition to Saturn (ruling his 1st) indicates that he is an 'overachiever', pushing his body to physical exhaustion.
MA/SA = ASC = ME
Chronic nerve problems and nervous exhaustion may cause states of depression or melancholia related to the thyroid.

Saturn in Aries in the 2nd House, he should be cautious not to identify himself as to 'How much am I worthed?" in terms of money or material possessions.
He will alternate in his life between spendthrift in his relationships (Mars Libra 8th) and being stingy and austere with himself (Saturn Aries 2nd).
Blessings!

5
I have natal Mars opposite Saturn. Definitely a tendency to a see-saw effect. But at some point I figured out that athletic activity is actually a good way to correlate the two. Mars rules athletes. Saturn rules self-discipline and hard work. A good athlete, notably in a team sport, needs massive amounts of self-discipline.

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@Ouranos
You wrote:
What debilitated planets are teaching us is that nobody is perfect and it is perfect like that!

I will think about it but i must say that i am sceptical about it. Maybe i will open another thread on this topic.

@ annadeer
Okay, let’s talk about Cody Simpson.
Tom wrote in an other thread (http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1030)
„I don't see how mr by sign such as Jupiter in Gemini (detriment) and Mercury in Sagitarius (detriment) are helpful since neither planet can help the other since they are both weak. I like the metaphor of two drunks trying to help each other home. It is some help, but not much The same would be true by exaltation e.g. Venus in Aries - Sun in Pisces. Venus is in detriment and the Sun is peregrine. So I grant the mr nothing. For the record I also consider peregrine planets to remain peregrine even if they are in mr.
The other side of the story is that Bonatti supposedly said something like reception removes all evil. But does it grant strength?“
If reception removes all evil, their peregrine state becomes less of a problem or even neutralized.
It’s also interesting to note that, in Cody Simoson's natal chart, the opposition between Mars and Saturn is a partile aspect, about 0,2 degrees. So, the effect of the mutual reception is bigger than usual.
With regard to the first part of Tom’s statement, i would like to add that, in the natal chart of Cody Simpson, Saturn and Mars are accidentally dignified by being in harmonious aspects to other planets. Therefore, i don’t see them as drunks.
As a result, it makes sense to me that Cody is successful as an athlete.

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Ouranos, Waybread, FAtedWayfarer, thank you for your input and for giving me food for thought.

FatedWayFarer, a side-note, in Cody's chart, there is no mutual reception between Mars and Saturn. Personally I can't believe it's just their trine/sextile with Venus/Uranus that outweighs the opposition and the 'bad' placements in signs. I'd more think in the lines of Saturn dominating the chart, being the ruler of his Ascendant plus the ruler of 5 planets, plus being conjunct South Node, giving him tremendous perseverance and stamina.

Another observation in the same lines, but the other way round, how a seemingly harmonious aspect can have dark results: both Johnny Depp and Amber Heard have Venus at 26 Taurus. That means this year they had/have Pluto trining their Venuses and their composite Venus. No harmony came out of that :)

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FatedWayFarer, a side-note, in Cody's chart, there is no mutual reception between Mars and Saturn.
Saturn is the exaltation ruler of Libra. Mars is the domicile ruler of Aries. Both planets give each other a reception, so, as far as i understand it, the reception is mutual. Do you not consider it a mutual reception just because it is a "mixed" reception? In other words, would it in your opinion only be a mutual reception if both planets were giving each other an equal reception?

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If reception removes all evil, their peregrine state becomes less of a problem or even neutralized.
Not sure about this one FatedWayfarer,
I would have to understand the MR between Moon (Detriment Capricorn) and Mars (Detriment Taurus) in Hitler's chart, known for his outbursts of anger.
Or his Mixed Reception between Mars (Detriment Taurus) in the Bound of Jupiter (Fall in Capricorn) in the Exaltation of Mars. Hard to call it 'constructive action'.

To quote Andrew Bevan

"A planet that is located in a sign where it is uncomfortable, i.e. in its detriment or fall, but still is in one of its minor essential dignities, is like a person who has a good reason for appearing in what might be considered 'the wrong place at the wrong time."
https://www.astronor.com/dignities.htm
Blessings!

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FatedWayfarer wrote:Do you not consider it a mutual reception just because it is a "mixed" reception? In other words, would it in your opinion only be a mutual reception if both planets were giving each other an equal reception?
FatedWayfarer, my mistake, I didn't know mixed receptions are/can be considered as mutual reception -- have no opinion on this and no experience with this, so far

More thoughts about Cody Simpson: I checked the fixed stars for Sun, Asc, Moon, Mars, Venus/Mercury: except for the Asc (which may be a few degrees off anyway), they are all conjunct very fortunate fixed stars: Dheneb, Alnair, Zania & Polis.

I'm beginning to think more and more that the fixed stars are more important than the rest (see also the thread on natal chart of queen elisabeth)

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Ouranos wrote:
I would have to understand the MR between Moon (Detriment Capricorn) and Mars (Detriment Taurus) in Hitler's chart, known for his outbursts of anger.
Or his Mixed Reception between Mars (Detriment Taurus) in the Bound of Jupiter (Fall in Capricorn) in the Exaltation of Mars. Hard to call it 'constructive action'.
Here, i disagree.
I would like to refer to astrojin who wrote that a reception can only occur if the planets which are involved are in an Ptolemaic aspect.

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic ... Receptions
astrojin wrote:
In your example, Bonatti would say that there is no reception as Libra and Scorpio are not in Ptolemaic aspect to each other. In Bonatti's scheme (and many medieval astrologers for that matter), aspect is required for reception and mutual reception.
Reception:
A receives/welcomes B if B is in A's rulership (by domicile, exaltation or 2 of the lower dignities i.e. term, triplicity or face) AND A aspects B (Conj, Sextile, Trine, Square or Opposition).
B receives/welcomes A if A is in B's rulership (by domicile, exaltation or 2 of the lower dignities i.e. term, triplicity or face) AND A aspects B (Conj, Sextile, Trine, Square or Opposition).
If both conditions occur, then (and only then) you have mutual reception.
If A is in B's dignity AND B is in A's dignity AND they do not aspect each other (Ptolemaic aspect) - the condition is called Generosity
Avraham Ibn-Ezra, "The Beginning of Wisdom", trans. by Meira B. Epstein, ARHAT Publications, 1998, Page 125:-
Generosity is when two planets are in each other's domicile, or exaltation, or some other rulership; even though they do not join nor aspect each other, there is [still] reception between them.
In my opinion, astrojin is too strict. I believe that a triplicity ruler may also grant a reception. Also, i believe that a reception can occur when there is a minor aspect between two planets – such as a semi-square, a quintile, a bi-quintile, a quincunx or a tri-octile etc.

With regard to Hitler’s chart, you have asked a difficult question.
I got the following possible explanations:

- His Mars is peregrine which may indicate that he seeks unnecessary struggles / arguments /quarrels
- In my opinion, Moon and Jupiter are accidentally dignified in Hitler’s chart. There is a trine between his Sun and his Moon and between his Sun and Jupiter. Also, several biquintiles and quincunxes occur between his Moon and other planets and between his Jupiter and other planets. Also, according to my interpretation method, Moon and Jupiter who are located in Capricorn get a reception from Saturn and Pluto. As a result, i believe that capricorn becomes Hitler’s strongest zodiac sign. And capricorn people tend to behave as you described – angry and authoritative
- Last but not least, it should be mentioned that Hitler was a drug addict in his late years. People who take drugs behave differently than their natal chart would suggest. I bet that Hitler was not so much shouting around back when he was younger.

For clarification, i would like to add my personal view. I believe that it could well be the case that a reception only eliminates peregrine behaviour of planet a towards planet b and the malefic effects of a hard aspect. I think so because a planet can’t do both things at the same time: being malefic and treating the planet which is given a reception like an honoured guest.
So, my conclusion is that a peregrine planet who gives a reception to another planet still remains malefic towards other planets and also malefic in transit charts and in synastry charts

12
FatedWayfarer,

We can disagree on the 'orb of influence' whether you use the Ptolemaic aspect or whole sign but below is an interesting article by Steven Birchfield where he discusses the orb and the perimeter of an aspect.

https://astrologiamedieval.com/Orbes.htm
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- When you say Moon and Jupiter are 'accidentally dignified' by aspects
Accidentally dignified refers to planets being Angular not by aspects.

In Hitler's chart, Mars is in Detriment in Taurus as well as Saturn in Leo.
And the square between both planets is also strong because their are in an Antiscia relationship and Angular.
Mars in Taurus is in its Triplicity
Saturn in Leo is also in its Triplicity
Triciplities signifies our relationships, allies and supporters.
In Hitler's case, it could only mean to find the same evil in his companions.
We can also add that MarsL7 is Out of Sect in a diurnal chart.

We also find VenusL1 in Rulership tied to Mars. To me, this Venus gave him access to resources and a safe haven in his bunker 'The Wolf's Lair'. but in the end he could not escape the enemies represented by Mars and Saturn.

As for reception of a peregrine planet, Deb Houlding says that a peregrine planet is like an 'outsider', a 'foreigner'. Lilly would add that this person 'cannot be trusted.' If a planet in Rulership receives a peregrine planet, this planet can do damage to your house within the space you grant him access to.

Thanks for sharing your views in your interesting post,
Ouranos
Blessings!