169 by annadeer alex miller wrote: However, on the issue of cultural appropriation, I agree with the poster there who said that myths are archetypes available to all peoples in all times, or words to that effect. Sedna's shoulders are broad enough to carry the weight of her Inuit people's projections, and our own. And it's not like classical deities are dead, just because they are not the official religion markers of a particular ethnic group anymore. There are many who still venerate classical gods, myself included. At a guess, I would hazard that there are more worshipping pagans in today's world than there are Inuit. So if cultural appropriation applies to Inuit deities it also does to Greek gods. Which would leave us with nothing astrologically. I was thinking in the same lines, couldn't formulate it so eloquently. The power of myths is that they exceed time and culture and are relevant for entire humanity. Also, there exist many different versions of the Sedna story, just like there exist many different versions of the Greek myths and Gods and Goddesses. It's not as if there's just only one correct version. Quote Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:48 pm
170 by Ouranos It will be interesting to watch the next FM at 28 Leo, February 16th, squaring Sedna conjunct the North Node and Fixed Star Algol at the end of Taurus. Linda Berry says of "Sedna ( 2003 VB12 / 90377 ) is about the deepest levels of our personal psyche and how they operate. When these levels are transformed then extremely intense mystical spiritual connections can be established. There is a deep connection here with other realms. However, when these levels are not faced and transformed they can be horrendous." Some astronomers think that Sedna, as the first known member of the inner Oort cloud, might also be the prototype of a new orbital class of object, the sednoids Blessings! Quote Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:38 pm
171 by annadeer Ouranos wrote:It will be interesting to watch the next FM at 28 Leo, February 16th, squaring Sedna conjunct the North Node and Fixed Star Algol at the end of Taurus. with a 3 degree orb, Korhonen will be conjunct NN/Sedna/Algol too -- edit: and Korhonen moves relatively fast, a week or so later the conjunction with Sedna and NN will be exact edit: i just did a check -- the years Sedna transited over my natal Venus in 8, ruler of my 9th and 2d, co-ruler of my Asc and 8th, were really good, happy and transforming years -- I was sponsored to live & study in California -- so for sure Sedna is not all bad - - although I don't see how this sort of abundance relates to the myth -- there must be a link for those years coincided exactly with that transit Quote Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:20 pm
172 by Ouranos the years Sedna transited over my natal Venus in 8, ruler of my 9th and 2d, co-ruler of my Asc and 8th, were really good, happy and transforming years I believe too - Check Key concepts here http://www.astrologicaldepth.com/TNOInfo/Sedna.htm Does it relate to some of the concepts mentioned by Waybread or Alex https://alexasteroidastrology.com/sedna/ Michael Brown one of the discoverer of Sedna "initially nicknamed Sedna "The Flying Dutchman", or "Dutch", after a legendary ghost ship, because its slow movement had initially masked its presence from his team. For an official name for the object, Brown settled on "Sedna", a name from Inuit mythology, which Brown chose partly because he mistakenly thought the Inuit were the closest polar culture to his home in Pasadena." Blessings! Quote Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:47 pm
173 by waybread Good points all, y'all. I will repeat something I stressed in that Astrodienst Sedna thread. The issue of cultural appropriation has to be understood from the perspective of the living, breathing ethnic group whose narratives we appropriate, not so much from our western modern (and typically urban) astrological perspective. This may become more of an issue for TNOs, due to an IAU agreement to name new discoveries after creator deities. Having previously exhausted Greco-Roman names, astronomers turn to other cultures. "Objects sufficiently outside Neptune's orbit that orbital stability is reasonably assured for a substantial fraction of the lifetime of the solar system (so called Cubewanos or "classical" TNOs) are given mythological names associated with creation." https://www.iau.org/public/themes/naming/ Cultural appropriation is an issue in Canada, where I live. I don't know how many of you followed the scandal of Canada's residential school systems for First Nations children. Children were forcibly taken from their families, rounded up, and forced to attend residential schools that were typically run by one or another Christian denomination. The project was cultural erasure of First Nations' language, religion, beliefs, and norms. Oftentimes little kids got physically erased, as well, due to poor standards of health care and nutrition. Some schools had cemeteries but no playgrounds. https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/ ... al-schools When the young adults were released back to their homelands (or the streets of major Canadian cities,) they were typically traumatized, fitting in with neither white society nor with their traditions. There's more to be said, but you get the picture. We should not take this issue lightly. The other problem is for us. Should we assume that, in our Europeanized wisdom, we have the superior interpretation of what an indigenous narrative means, we lose a lot of its profound meaning. We need to minimize the arrogance of thinking that our Europeanized interpretations trump theirs. Notably for people who have never experienced the sheer vastness of the Arctic, and the isolation of its First Nations communities. Alex, I think this issue pertains to some extent to gods worshipped by past societies. We cannot worship the Greco-Roman or Germanic (or other) gods in the way people did in the past. Pausanias, for example, describes an ancient Greece dotted with physically imposing temples to gods, and mentions mystery cults whose secrets have been lost. Latin authors described types of family-based worship, or rites distinguished by social classes that no longer exist. I prefer to think of today's paganism as resurrecting something of the past, but we simply cannot resurrect it with historical accuracy. So we have Neo-paganism. Some of it gets a little scary, as with neo-Nazis who imagine they have re-created pagan Germanic ways. However, the more we learn the old narratives about asteroids and TNOs whose names are based in mythology, the richer and deeper our understandings become. And in so doing, we honor the historical pagans' memory. Quote Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:24 pm
174 by waybread Just wanting to add, and to correlate with y'alls' points, that of course we have to coordinate what we believe with what another culture believes about a deity, and what that deity means to us. Otherwise we couldn't begin to make sense of another culture's narratives, if there were no major points of contact. I just hope that we don't settle for quick closure. First let's permit the other culture's narratives to sink in, in all of their own environmental and cultural contexts. Then we're in a better position to say what a given myth-based asteroid name signifies. I think there is also a danger with asteroids, in viewing multiple "hits", some of which are a bit far-fetched, almost as stamp-collecting, without really coming to terms with the complex human life or the tragic event that is the foundation for the interpretation. Quote Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:15 am
175 by Ouranos Good points Waybread! When the Roman Empire conquered Greece, they abolished their culture. And it is not before 1837, when Greece created the University of Greece, that they started to revisit their heritage. So, even for Greeks, it is almost a cultural appropriation! Blessings! Quote Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:38 am
176 by annadeer Sedna kept me awake this night! Ouranos & Waybread — thank you for the links! Been browsing through them and also been researching natal and transiting Sedna in a few randomly picked celebrities and acquaintances. I can understand Alex’s isolation theme — but also see: betrayal, victimhood, revenge, being cut off from one’s roots, deep psychological problems, lack of true love (pointed out by Waybread) edit: and also, literally, physical handicaps (her fingers were cut off) and also — on the positive or at least neutral side: transformation, shapeshifting, spirituality, immersion in different cultures, strange unusual worlds, empowerment (Sedna became an important deity with a lot of power, pointed out by Waybread), abundance (she provides nourishment) — and also, simply, marriage Hehe, sounds a bit like a stellium Pluto-Neptune-Venus with all its possible positive expressions and all of its possible darkness Not as much time as i’d like to have — but thus far what I gathered is this: My own Sedna transit over Venus (in my 8th, ruler of 9 and 2): I got sponsored to live & study in California: themes that apply: transformation, shapeshifting, empowerment, being cut off from my roots (this was a positive experience), being immersed in a totally different culture, living close to the sea, getting to meet Shamans and weird subcultures, abundance -- but no true love An old acquaintance of mine: natal Sedna conjunct natal Venus and Mars: a compulsive womanizer who serially cheated on his wife Jennifer Aniston: natal Sedna in 7 (not exactly at the cusp, but only a few degrees in) square her natal Mercury in 4 — pointing at the bad relation she had with her mom, and at her being betrayed in her marriage, and at her being notoriously picky George Clooney: transiting Sedna was exactly conjunct his natal Mercury, ruler of his 7th, when he met and married Amal! It doesn’t seem like a bad marriage at all. Also, Sedna transited over his Sun in 2000-2001, his career was booming. But he was probably breaking a lot of girlfriends’ hearts. Interesting, puzzling detail: he has natal Sedna exactly at the cusp of his 2d house, square his natal Saturn. Sedna has been transiting through his 2d his entire life George Lucas: Sedna transited over his natal Mercury in 12th house, ruler of his 2d and co-ruler of his 5th, in 1977-1982, when he made the first Star Wars movies, which immediately and unexpectedly became blockbusters — sounds like the strange worlds theme, and the spiritual theme, and the empowerment and abundance theme. He also adopted his first child and divorced in the same period. In 1993 when Sedna transited over his Venus, ruler of his Ascendant, also in 12, he started working on the Star Wars prequels, after a decade-long break -- same themes coming up. Sedna transited over his Asc in 2002-2003, and over his Sun in 2005. Not sure what happened in these years, but for sure he got even more powerful and richer. Lauren Bacall: Sedna transited over her natal Moon in the early sixties — when she married Jason Robards, whom she would divorce in 1969 because of his alcoholism Jeremy Irons: In 79-80 Sedna transited over his NN: got married (a happy marriage, they’re still together) and made his film debut: about the psychological decline of Niyinski. in 1991: transiting Sedna made an exact square to his natal Venus and an exact opposition to his natal Mars: he won an Oscar — for his role in ‘Fortune reversal’: a movie about the unexplained coma of a socialite, the subsequent attempted murder trial and eventual acquittal of her husband — that sounds like a dark Sedna story! acquaintance of mine with natal Sedna conjunct Asc: very pretty, declined all the right suitors, married the wrong guy for the wrong reasons, was betrayed, became revengeful and hateful A friend of mine: fell massively in love and married when Sedna transited over his Venus (but they divorced less than five years later) Last edited by annadeer on Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:52 pm, edited 16 times in total. Quote Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:47 am
177 by waybread One other dimension of Sedna, is that when she becomes angry at the Inuit people for not following their traditional rituals, she withholds marine mammals and causes hardship for them. Then the shaman must communicate with her, and comb her tangled hair. Something Sedna cannot do for herself, due to her maimed hands. At the winter solstice, the sun does not rise north of the Arctic Circle. It is dark, cold, icy, and vast. Analogous to astronomical Sedna. Hard to comprehend in human terms. Quote Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:48 am
178 by annadeer Waybread's mentioning maimed hands made me think of Stephen Hawkings. So I checked: natal Sedna in his 6th, inconjunct Moon, square Sun. When he was diagnosed with ALS, Sedna transited over his Mars, ruler of his 6th, inconjunct Neptune -- on top of everyhting else, with her cut off fingers, Sedna might be an indicator of physical disabilities Taking it a symbolical step further: Hawking was a hardcore materialist -- he would never have allowed a shaman to comb his hair, or enter his life in whatever way, one could say -- was that his downfall? Last edited by annadeer on Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:36 pm, edited 2 times in total. Quote Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:49 am
179 by Ouranos Such a good way to learn asteroids with you guys! In conversation. Blessings! Quote Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:07 pm
180 by annadeer Ouranos wrote:Such a good way to learn asteroids with you guys! In conversation. indeed Ouranos! And here's another Sedna one: Marilyn Monroe had Sedna transiting over her Venus in Aries when she died (and the years before she died). The victim and betrayal theme. Her Venus in Aries didn't help of course. I guess me having had a good experience with Sedna over my Venus may have been because my Venus is in Taurus And another detail: she had natal Kennedy conjunct her natal Neptune in her first house. Quote Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:14 pm