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Skyscript Astrology Forum

US Presidential Election 2020
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 5156
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:27 pm    Post subject: US Presidential Election 2020 Reply with quote












With just around 90 days to go until the US Presidential election on November 3rd we are clearly overdue to start a thread on this years's contest.

Donald Trump the incumbent Republican party candidate and POTUS is going to the voters in November against the Democratic party candidate, and former Vice President Jo Biden.

I am inviting astrological commentary and analysis and welcome forecasts of the likely winner on that basis.

I have created another thread where I am constantly collating predictions /forecasts on the election outcome. I am also listing links to astrological articles of general interest.
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10998

Before we start let me make it crystal clear this thread is not a soapbox to sound off about or attack either candidate. That kind of posting is both distracting and inappropriate. Polemical posting like that will be removed without prior warning.

I also ask that people remain respectful here even if our outlooks are often polticallty or astrologically different. Lets try and make this thread a beacon, of tolerance and high quality astrology.

I have inserted the charts for both Donald Trump and Jo Biden to get us started. I will be posting more charts as we go along to assist discussion here.




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Last edited by Mark on Sun Aug 23, 2020 4:16 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 1572
Location: California, USA

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What flattering photos of both candidates!! With age and stress creeping up on both Trump and Biden, they aren't looking so good in newspaper photos these days. It's interesting that we continue to see victory predictions for both Trump and Biden as the election draws closer.

There is a new "sales technique" those of us in the U.S. with public phone numbers are being bombarded with. From multiple locations and numbers the message loudly declares form the Big Man himself, "This is President Trump. I AM WITH YOU!! I AM SUPPORTING YOU....!!" The message goes on. When I block that phone number, the message comes in from another number from Washington, D.C. This is definitely a first for election protocol and pure Donald Trump. Mars on a Leo ascendant.
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astralwanderer



Joined: 20 Dec 2012
Posts: 156
Location: Southwest England

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:38 pm    Post subject: Temperament Analysis Reply with quote

Hi there - the temperament analysis of the two candidates shows very different sets of qualities.

Joe Biden

Using a method adapted from Lilly, Biden's temperamental make up shows an equable character. None of the temperaments stand out as extreme. Biden has equal makeup of heat, cold, dry and moist. There is a slight emphasis in the choleric temperament - hot and dry - and phlegmatic - cold and wet. These two types are contrasting, each being made up of elements not contained in the other. However, overall, Biden's analysis shows a pretty even mixture of each of the temperaments and elements.



Donald Trump

Temperamentally, Trump is a walking furnace or boiler or volcano or steam engine! There is nothing in his makeup that diminishes the heat and dryness of choler except the moisture of sanguine. And this has probably boiled off some time ago. Trump is a man of extremes. There is little in his temperament to suggest the reflectiveness of melancholy or the potential empathy of the watery phlegmatic. From a temperament point of view, emotional and intellectual insight are not going to be Trump's strengths.



Ed
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 1572
Location: California, USA

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have two presidential predictions in place, both from recognized experts in our field, and both in the sidereal zodiac. Here on Skyscript Linchi (Cemal Cicek) who uses the Krishnamurti ayanamsa and Kenneth Bowser who uses the Fagan-Bradley value have made opposite predictions. (Kenneth Bowser correctly predicted a win for Trump in 2016.)

Linchi (Cemal Cicek) wrote on 10 April, 2020:
Quote:
I think Trump's birth time is accurate to the minute, so there's no need to correct.

Donald Trump will win.

Harmonic 256

Inauguration Day : On January 20, 2021 at 12:00

Solar :
Solar Jupiter/Kronos = natal Sun = natal Kronos
Solar Jupiter = natal Sun/Kronos

Secondary Progression :
p Sun/Kronos = natal Sun/Kronos

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10870

Kenneth Bowser wrote:
Quote:
President Trump’s 2019 Sidereal Solar Return & the 2020 Election
Kenneth Bowser·Wednesday, June 26, 2019

Trump won in 2016 with the benefics rising; he will lose with the malefics anti-culminating through the I.C. , called "the end of things" in astrology. He also had good transits that night in 2016, in particular transiting Jupiter almost exactly semi-square his natal Mars. The transit of Jupiter to the natal Mars is consistently a strong indication of one who wins in contested endeavors.

The tables are turned in 2020. Transiting Mars at 10:00 p.m. EST on election night in 2020, is in 20º Pisces 51Rx which is 7 minutes of arc from the exact to the minute sesquiquadrate (135º) to his natal ascendant, which is 5° Leo 58; and transiting Saturn at 1º Capricorn 21° will oppose his natal Venus only 24 minutes of arc from exact at 10:00 pm. The Mars transit symbolizes a blow, i.e., taking a punch. The Saturn transit to Venus is symbolic of rejection or being emotionally distraught.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/kenneth-bowser/president-trumps-2019-sidereal-solar-return-the-2020-election/1409809669156948/

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amymaddalozzo



Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 143

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:58 pm    Post subject: TRUmp vs Biden Reply with quote

I can not remember where I read this but based on the chart when the president takes the oath of office (same time, date all the time), whoever is elected will not finish their term. There were certain rules this person used based on last presidents who did not finish their term. Given the age of both men, I think it really does matter because both have a good chance of either dying in office or being taken out by the 25th amendment due to ill health AMY
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Isaac Starkman



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 151
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correct prediction require a well rectified chart.
Joe Biden:
Radix: 20 Nov 1942 8.27.31 EWT Asc 2Sag41’
Epoch:23 Feb 1942 01.16.47 UT Asc 4Lib 37’ Moon 2Gem43’
Donald Trump:
Radix: 14 June 1946 10.47.54 EDT Asc 28Leo43’
Epoch: 19Sep 1945 19.52.16 UT Asc 20Cap40 Moon 28Aqu32’

The main indications I saw for the clear victory of Biden:
Primary Directions in Topocentric system, Dual Test according to Alexander Marr:
Sun 120 Jup R/E 2’
means: direct Sun of the radix trine Jupiter in the epoch
Jup 120 Sun E/R 2’
MC 120 Mars E/E 1'
Moon 180 MC E/R 5'
Secondary:
Mer 0 Asc R/E 8’
Mer 180 Jup R/R 10’
Moon 60 Jup E/E 6’
PSSR:
Ven 180 Jup E/R 9’
Jup 120 Moon R/R 0’
Moon 60 Mer R/E 8’
NN 0 MC E/E 1’
20 Jan 2021:
Primary:
Jup 180 Moon R/R 4’
Asc 60 Ven E/E 2'
Secondary:
Mer 120 III E/R 1’
III 0 Mer E/E 5'
Mer 180 Jup R/R 9'
MC 120 Sun E/E 10'

Some examples for Return charts:
Solar return: Mercury 0 Asc !!!
Converse solar return: Venus 0 Asc, Ura 0 Desc, Mercury 0 Jupiter 0 radical Asc !!!!
Converse solar return, precession corrected: Mercury 0 Jupiter 0 Asc !!!
For his epoch:
3 Nov 2020
Converse lunar return : Mer 0 Ura 0 Sun 0 Asc!!!
Solar return: Mer 0 Desc!!
20 Jan 2021:
Lunar return: Jup 0 IC !!!
Harmonic Age (3 Nov) : MC 0 radical Mer Ven 0 radical Sun and radical Ven
77th Harmonic: Moon 0 Jup, Ven 0 NN 180 Mer
78TH Harmonic: Sun 0 radical MC!!

Donald Trump:
Primary:
Sat 90 Plu R/E 1’
III 120 Mars R/R 6’
III 0 Plu R/R 8’
Asc 60 Mars R/R 6’
Secondary:
III 180 Sat E/E 1’
MC 180 SAT E/R 2’
Asc 90 Plu E/E 4’
Asc 120 Sat E/R 5’
Sun 0 Sat E/E 8’
PSSR:
Sat 90 III R/R 8’
SN 90 III E/E 3’
Mars 60 III R/E 9’
Moon 0 Asc R/R 16’
Nep 60 Asc R/E 12’
20 Jan 2021:
Primary:
Nep 120 Asc E/R 1’
Sat 0 MC E/E 1’
NN 0 Asc R/R 11’
MC 60 SN R/E 5’
Moon 180 Asc R/R 9’
Asc 60 Mars R/E 5’

74TH Harmonic: Sat 60 radical Sun, Plu 180 radical Sun orb 12’
20 Jan 2021:
Converse Harmonic Age: Sat 0 radical Asc!!!

Joe Biden will be the winner. There are also a clear indications for victory in the charts for his wife Jill and for Kamala Harris that will be the next V. P.
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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 861

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kamala Harris https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Harris,_Kamala

Astro data bank have an AA chart for her, from birth certificate.

Incredibly powerful chart, wouldn't be surprised if she becomes President.
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 1572
Location: California, USA

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's possible that the astrological charts can seem to make different predictions between election and inauguration day. Linchi's prediction of a Trump victory is based on inauguration day while Ken Bowser's Biden victory is based on the election date.

Because the U.S. electoral college vote (which decides who will become president) can be and has been different from the popular vote, "Who will win the election?" is potentially an ambiguous question.

Perhaps the only question that can be clearly answered is "Will this person receive the crown of the king on inauguration day?" This means that we have to use the natal charts of the contenders for our prediction.

Because of Covid-19 and the probable fact that many more ballots will be mail-in ballots (and thus take longer to count), the expectation is that it's possible we won't know the election result until some time after election day. We can perhaps expect election chaos and a delayed counting of ballots. Already there's a great deal of controversy as to whether the U.S. postal service can adequately handle a large number of mail-in ballots.
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 5156
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:
Quote:
Linchi's prediction of a Trump victory is based on inauguration day while Ken Bowser's Biden victory is based on the election date.


I mean no offence to the astrologer concerned but I am afraid this is so short in analysis it doesn't really meet my minimum criteria for a substantive prediction or delineation. Its not fair to those astrologers who worked up a really full analysis.

Here is my ongoing thread which includes the predictions of forecasts I am including:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10998
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Last edited by Mark on Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:47 am; edited 3 times in total
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Location: California, USA

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The point of my post was to suggest that election results can change between the election date in November 2020 and inauguration in January 2021 due to a delayed vote count of mail-in ballots. No one suggested who can and cannot be added to your list, Mark.
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Mark
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese White
Quote:
The point of my post was to suggest that election results can change between the election date in November 2020 and inauguration in January 2021 due to a delayed vote count of mail-in ballots. No one suggested who can and cannot be added to your list, Mark.


Ok. Fair enough. Certainly a lot could certainly happen after the election such as an electoral dispute, death or assassination of a successful candidate. Indeed also after then judging by that troublesome inuguration chart in 2021.

However, its actually very common for astrologers to study the inauguration and indeed the meeting of the electoral college delegates chart. Noel Tyl used to argue the election date was the least crucial of these 3 dates.

Mark
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linchi



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 186

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:

I mean no offence to the astrologer concerned...


I'm sure it was your intention, Mark.

My post about the election was a little explanation for Therese why the Transneptunians should be used. I would never post my opinion in this topic, because I know that communication here between astrological schools is not and will not be possible. But I find it very arrogant of you that you are able to decide what is astrology and what is not.
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amymaddalozzo



Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 143

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:42 am    Post subject: Election Reply with quote

Marjorie Orr has a very good post on her web site about joe Biden and the election. I think what she is saying is that astrology really can not predict an election. Some people are basically glad that they lost. Amy
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linchi wrote:

Quote:
My post about the election was a little explanation for Therese why the Transneptunians should be used. I would never post my opinion in this topic, because I know that communication here between astrological schools is not and will not be possible. But I find it very arrogant of you that you are able to decide what is astrology and what is not.


I am sorry you have decided to react that way. I don't know you and have nothing against you personally or you as an astrologer. My list is not seeking to decide what is astrology. But it has set down a higher standard for what counts as a more substantive prediction/forecast. I did that to avoid a repeat of my experience of compiling my 2016 Presidential election list. Following that I had to deal with a plethora of people that got back to me after the election result claiming they had put down a few comments on this forum or other that they had predicted the winner.

Longer term though I have suggested for some time this kind of thing should really be done by a large Astrological Association like ISAR not a private individual. That would be a more professional, objective way to conduct such a process. But I think you would find if that did happen it would not be a total free for all with every forum comment counted as valid. There has
to be a bottom line somewhere otherwise there is no fair comparison being made in predictions.

Still, just in case you thought I had some kind of political or astrological bias against you I am perfectly happy to include a more detailed prediction from you as I am from other forum members on Skyscript.

I was asked by several people to do this again but only did so quite reluctantly because I recall the last list I produced got me lots of hostility from astrologers excluded (largely with vague forecasts) or those listed that wanted to be removed after election day! I even had a fully fledged stalker that attacked me on social media for over a year after I told him I was excluding his Nine Star Ki prediction of a Trump win.

Mark
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

amymaddalozzo wrote:
Quote:
Marjorie Orr has a very good post on her web site about joe Biden and the election. I think what she is saying is that astrology really can not predict an election. Some people are basically glad that they lost. Amy


I agree Marjorie Orr does write well and she does analyse a lot. Although her website is a maze to find anything. I put her recent posts on my election prediction thread. Not in the prediction section but just as useful background reading.

Mark
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