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Eclipses and traditional natal astrology?

 
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4964
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:19 pm    Post subject: Eclipses and traditional natal astrology? Reply with quote

I have recently become very interested in eclipses. I know they are an important tool in mundane astrology but I was wondering about their use in natal astrology from a traditional approach?

I have read Bernadette Brady's excellent book Predictive Astrology: The Eagle and the Lark and Celeste Teal's book on eclipses but neither of these books are written from a traditional perspective.

I understand the pre-natal eclipse is important. However, would traditional authorities use solar and lunar eclipses to key planets/angles/houses the way modern astrologers do? If not how did they use eclipses? Would they only consider the eclipse points through contact and opposition to key points or also look at other aspect relationships such as the square?

I would really appreciate feedback from anyone with some knowledge in this area.
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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
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Location: England

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mark

I'm not sure whether you've seen this, but it might answer some of your questions.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/eclipserules.html
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4964
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Deb. Sorry I missed that piece. That will keep me busy for a while!

Mark
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Mari



Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 2

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello!

What an interesting topic!

I came across a couple of quotes to complete the discussion. The first one is from Valens from his Book IV where he treats the solar returns. At some point he suggests to consider the relationship between the universal charts and the individual solar returns/nativities:

« It is necessary to know ahead of time the universal conjunction <of>, the rising of Sirius, the Ascendant (if the Ascendant is at a tropic point), and the ruler of Sirius’ rising—because this <star> is considered the
overall houseruler of the year. (The cyclical rulers are the rulers of the Places. Likewise for each nativity or each later recasting, the ruler of the year is the overall houseruler; the rulers of the new and full moons are the cyclical houserulers.)
It is necessary to determine if the overall (i.e. universal) ruler is favorably related to the overall ruler of the nativity, or if it is the same. Likewise determine if the universal (i.e. cyclical) rulers are in harmony, or if they are the same. Moreover, the places of the nativity in which eclipses happen (i.e. in operative or inoperative places), plus the risings and phases of the stars, must be noted, because it is from these that distinguished, governing, and royal nativities derive their distinctive differences in occupation and glory; it is from these that great and marvelous forecasts usually come, carrying some to unparalleled fortune, others to a lowly and easily-ruined condition. »


(Marc Riley translation)

As to eclipses/nativities we only have this phrase: « the places of the nativity in which eclipses happen (i.e. in operative or inoperative places) ».

(NB: operative and inoperative places according to the same translation are: " The operative and effective signs are the Ascendant, MC, <the> Good Daimon, <the> Good Fortune, the Lot of Fortune, Daimon, Love, Necessity. Signs of moderate activity are <the> the God, <the> the Goddess, and the other two angles. The rest of the signs are mediocre or bad. The influence of a Place is weakened or is strengthened depending on the benefics or malefics which are in conjunction or aspect. <The> Bad Fortune, incidentally, seems to be better than <the> Bad Daimon, because of its <Fortune> position trine with MC.")

So this is it.

I did however give the full quote, because it seems to me that these two paragraphs give a better idea as to how Valens sees the way the individual fate is written in the universal picture and how it should be considered.

The first thing we can get from here is the idea that if we want to get some individual forecast from a general event we should better correlate it with the current changing situation of an individual (nativity + solar return and the rulers of profection, etc) rather than just nativity.

Also, he suggests to analyse the relationship between the universal rulers and personal periodical rulers. That’s not explicitly stated for eclipses, but I wonder it it’s not implicitly meant by the whole logic of it (that is to say, if it’s not meant that we can consider the eclipse case just like the rising of Sirius - that’s an interesting idea anyway).
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Mari



Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 2

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Next quote if from Abu Ma’shar On Solar Revolutions (translation Ben Dykes):

« And if the Sun and Moon were eclipsed in some one of the aforesaid places, and their Lords were in the sign of the eclipse, they signify worries and anxieties, and illnesses, and (his) enemies’ overcoming (him), and especially if the sign and the Lord of the sign were impeded », p. 157

The « aforesaid places » seem to be 1) the Asc of the nativity or the sign of the profection or the Asc of the revolution or the sign in which the distribution has arrived or with the Lords of places of the kind (places cited in the previous paragraph) 2) may also be the Midheaven of the revolution (the second previous paragraph)

Again, this idea of considering the eclipse within the individual solar return. Also the same idea to look if the eclipse falls upon angles/effective places. The difference is that Abu Ma’shar seems to concentrate himself on the Asc here and to give a more detailed description of consequences while Valens speaks of all active places/houses and only give a general idea of what it brings.

Also, Valens is a bit more optimistic, as he mentions one’s ruin, but also un « unparalleled fortune », which means that Valens thinks that an eclipse can bring some great things. Abu Ma’shar only cites all kinds of problems (maybe because he considers mainly the Asc?).
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