skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the mean conjunctions of the Jupiter-Saturn cycle
by Benjamin Dykes
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

technical questions for evaluating natal aspects

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Nativities & General Astrology
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
starlight



Joined: 01 Nov 2017
Posts: 3

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:54 pm    Post subject: technical questions for evaluating natal aspects Reply with quote

I've a few questions related to natal and synastry charts..thank you for helping me understand astrology better..

1. Jupiter at 1 Taurus (12H) I believe is considered peregrine. However, can multi-aspected planets be peregrine? In this case, jupiter makes many aspects:

A. conj an exalted moon at 2 Tau (12H)
B. trines pluto by 6 degrees, mars and venus by 10 and 11 degrees

Would favorable aspects like the tight conj to an exalted planet and trines/sextiles help a peregrine planet be stronger?

2. In a synastry chart, how might natives feel the influence of a jupiter conjunct tightly (same degree) pluto in 9H? (Specifically, the native with the jupiter happens to be mom to pluto daughter).

3. What is the significance of a cazimi sun on a native? Both in 7H above horizon, sun is 14.22 sag/NN is 14.1Cool.

4. What may be long-term impacts of a natal aspect of exact opp between moon in 12H at 8 pis and merc in 6H at 8 Vir?

5. How would you consider the strength of a conjunction of 2 planets if by degrees they fit the definition of a conj yet are in 2 separate signs?Specifically: venus in 9H at 12 cap and pluto in 8H at 6 cap? House system is pacidius.

6. Benefic planets residing in cadent houses - are they helped at all by favorable aspects? So using the example in first question, if jupiter in 12H is tightly conj an exalted moon - how might the influence of jupiter be on native even though its' in cadent house?


THANK YOU!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 447

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. A peregrine planet is always peregrine. Can a peregrine planet gain strength? Yes, from another planet that is dignified and receives it, such as your Moon exalted in Taurus receiving it. However, the Moon is also weakened in the 12th.

2. Synastry of Jupiter-Pluto is generally not deemed the most significant aspect to look at, but my guess is that it can add to the overall picture. If your Pluto is in the 9th and your mom's Jupiter conjuncts it, it is maybe possible you have an influence over your mom's religious beliefs and higher beliefs in general, or vice versa that change or challenge the other's way of thinking (or in dealing with other 9th house matters: travel, foreign lands, education, etc.). I believe often Jupiter-Pluto emphasis can show sharing resources, such as you living together as adults, or perhaps just remaining close where you give and take in relation to things that you need in life. Sometimes Jupiter-Pluto links can show power struggles also.

Personally, I share the same influence (a close conjunction where my Pluto is in contact with her Jupiter but in my 4th). We are not close and do not share resources, though. Likewise, her Pluto is in her 4th and conjunct my Jupiter. So, ours is very 4th house focused mutually. My guess is it shows the shared poverty we experienced during my youth, including times of homelessness. She was also a very superstitious and religious person and has influenced me with that, in some capacity.

I cannot say it is a positive influence, since I haven't spoken to her in 10 years, but maybe others have a different experience (my guess is our other influences are more likely to explain this though). Almost everyone in my family (not me) has Saturn in detriment (or Mars in fall) in Cancer and it aspects my ascendant.

3. Cazimi is within 17 arc minutes. Your example is 20 arc minutes, so just conjunction. Another point to mention is that most astrologers would not give a point, such as the NN, PoF or the house cusps, a cazimi meaning, since these are points and not planetary bodies.

What does Sun conjunct NN mean? There are lots of resources on the internet that might help. I would recommend the YouTube by Astrolada (Lada Duncheva) where she discusses it, and she emphasizes the differences between males and females with this aspect. Just Google "astrolada Sun conjunct north node" and you will find it. I have watched a lot of her Youtubes and they have a good mix of modern and classical approaches.

4. Long term impact? I don't understand the question.


5. It depends on the technique you use. You will hear arguments from either side. I would personally say it is conjunct but a weaker influence.

6. 12th house planets have less strength to exert their force more outwardly, especially for good, for the native because they cannot behold the 1st house. I would say being in aspect with the ascendant ruler will at least bring a planet in the 12th forward, for good or bad. Being in aspect with an angular planet also might. Yes, other planets can aid, but if it is also in the 12th, it is not able to exert its force well either. You generally want a dignified planet to receive it, by that we would want an essentially and accidentally dignified one for the best result. There are exceptions where I think it is bad for a planet to be dignified and receive a planet in the 12th, such as when the 12th house planet is an ill dignified malefic in aspect with the ascendant ruler receiving it (this could show potential for evil in the person).

I would argue that the question is backwards. A benefic is normally a planet that aids other planets in a chart, in classical astrology. So, a cadent benefic is less likely to give aid, just as a malefic cadent is (generally) less likely to cause problems. Jupiter in the 12th can be a protective influence on matters of that house, though, such as protection from hidden enemies, but a peregrine Jupiter is not very good at that. Here is a traditional interpretation: http://www.astrology-x-files.com/houses/jupiter-12.html They mention an ill dignified (here un-dignified) Jupiter in the 12th can show over-indulgence and lack of good judgment, for example. Lilly would say a poorly dignified Jupiter can show someone who wastes their money, they can be a hypocrite, ignorant, careless, someone who sticks their nose in other people's business, etc. It obviously depends on other factors, especially, say, the condition of its dispositor (Venus here). Certainly having a dignified planet conjunct it and receiving it could influence it for the better. Still, Moon is also disposited by Venus, so one would wonder about its condition. If Moon is in Taurus in the 12th, then Cancer is probably on the 2nd cusp and Jupiter might rule the 10th, so it could also help describe the person's vocation, such as being a singer, or in the arts in general (it would be hard to say without more info) but struggling in that area due to the 12th house placement and the condition of Jupiter. Jupiter might also rule the 7th house and could help describe a potential spouse, etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
starlight



Joined: 01 Nov 2017
Posts: 3

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:57 am    Post subject: re: Reply with quote

Thank you so much Tanit!

On the last question - my daughter has venus at 12 cap 9H which has triplicity and trines mars in natal chart. Venus is amulten in her chart beside being chart ruler. So I'm just trying to make sense of that jup because it's on one hand: retrograde, peregrine, cadent house yet mutual reception with chart ruler, wide trines venus and tightly conj moon exalted. Just trying to understand the impact of some not great things and how any of the good things about it might make it better? Smile (Cancer is actually on cusp of 3rd. Her 12H is large with ASC at 21 Tau.)

Her NN is 14:18, sun 14:22 - isn't that 4 min difference which fits into cazimi? Thanks for the phrase by which to research and google however Smile

On the 2nd question - my daughter has always been TREMENDOUSLY close to me. Suffocating close (very physically into me even now almost age 7 Smile ) I love her to pieces and it's not that I'm complaining but she is high maintenance. We have a strong strong bond. There is nothing else that is striking in our charts except the jupiter/pluto conj which is why I asked the question. Her pluto in 6 Cap 8H, my jup in 5 Cap 9H. No other "bonds" that I see on forums that parent may have with their kid - no strong connections with nodes or anything! Except they both got my 6 and 12H placements of planets - hah!!!

The other question on merc exact opp moon at 8 degrees is a question I had about my son. He has had speech therapy for years and is now age 9. He has done well and is now at appx 93% articulation understanding. The speech has not impacted him socially nor academically. School mid last year in 2nd grade pulled him as they said they could not justify it since he was a grade level ahead. We feel that he prob still needs it on some level but maybe not. My question concerned whether it's something that is a bit inherent - it's almost like it's the way he speaks, a style, not just a speech issue per se. The moon opp is exact so I was curious as to whether this speech thing is something that is critically serious, perhaps working itself out or not? Merc is at 8 virgo 6H, moon 8 pis 12H. As well, my son has jup conj nep beside moon in 12H. Double water - moon and asc both in pisces. (He's a leo fire however!)

I had difficult c sec with both and uneasy pregnancies esp with my daughter. But both have moon/jup in 12H and amulten venus. I am a virgo moon, aries asc, scorp sun. Jupiter in fall and 6H moon sq saturn. I've not had an easy life. My venus is 2 lib conj pluto in 6H along with mars conj uranus there too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 447

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
On the last question - my daughter has venus at 12 cap 9H which has triplicity and trines mars in natal chart. Venus is amulten in her chart beside being chart ruler. So I'm just trying to make sense of that jup because it's on one hand: retrograde, peregrine, cadent house yet mutual reception with chart ruler, wide trines venus and tightly conj moon exalted. Just trying to understand the impact of some not great things and how any of the good things about it might make it better? Smile (Cancer is actually on cusp of 3rd. Her 12H is large with ASC at 21 Tau.)


Is your daughter an adult? I personally do not like to analyze a child's chart (ethical concerns). People can change dramatically over time, but it is obviously up to you to do that. The traditionalists would say a natal chart represents someone best at maturity, assuming a person reachs that stage of life. It is hard to say without looking at the chart but I personally think Jupiter sounds like it might be describing the future vocation but it will also describe those other houses impacted, and obviously influence her personality, especially if aspecting the ascendant ruler.

Quote:
Her NN is 14:18, sun 14:22 - isn't that 4 min difference which fits into cazimi? Thanks for the phrase by which to research and google however


I see. Before you said 14.1. Still, as I said, a point cannot be cazimi, at least as far as I understand in the traditional use of cazimi.

Quote:
On the 2nd question - my daughter has always been TREMENDOUSLY close to me. Suffocating close (very physically into me even now almost age 7 Smile ) I love her to pieces and it's not that I'm complaining but she is high maintenance. We have a strong strong bond. There is nothing else that is striking in our charts except the jupiter/pluto conj which is why I asked the question. Her pluto in 6 Cap 8H, my jup in 5 Cap 9H. No other "bonds" that I see on forums that parent may have with their kid - no strong connections with nodes or anything! Except they both got my 6 and 12H placements of planets - hah!!!


I don't think Jupiter-Pluto would describe this influence but maybe something else you are overlooking. I might be mistaken, though. As I said, I share the aspect with my mother and it is via both of us. If anything, we are both very detached people and she regards me as her "easiest" child because I always followed rules and was a white sheep among three black sheep daughters. I was not needy or clingy. I did not like affection or to be touched and was alone a lot. I think as far as codependency or having emotional needs that are above average goes, that might be described in other ways, such as someone's Moon in the other's 6th or 8th house. I don't see Jupiter-Pluto describing clinginess, personally. I definitely think it could show you share resources into adulthood, where maybe one is codependent in that way. My mother has never support herself and I helped support her for a while as an adult (now one of my sisters does that).

It could also be your daughter's Moon in the 12th shows some emotional vulnerability, regardless of synastry.

Quote:
The other question on merc exact opp moon at 8 degrees is a question I had about my son. He has had speech therapy for years and is now age 9. He has done well and is now at appx 93% articulation understanding. The speech has not impacted him socially nor academically. School mid last year in 2nd grade pulled him as they said they could not justify it since he was a grade level ahead. We feel that he prob still needs it on some level but maybe not. My question concerned whether it's something that is a bit inherent - it's almost like it's the way he speaks, a style, not just a speech issue per se. The moon opp is exact so I was curious as to whether this speech thing is something that is critically serious, perhaps working itself out or not? Merc is at 8 virgo 6H, moon 8 pis 12H. As well, my son has jup conj nep beside moon in 12H. Double water - moon and asc both in pisces. (He's a leo fire however!)


Mercury does very well in Virgo but if afflicted in the 6th it can show lack of mental focus/organization and difficulties communicating. An opposition via the Moon is not really something I would think is the most afflicting but Moon is coming from the 12th, and Mercury in the 6th, there is more conflict between the mind and the emotions and anxiety, nervousness, etc. increases. Having Moon in the 12th makes it difficult to even understand one's own emotions and emotional needs, so that can make speaking more difficult. He may need to focus on things like building confidence and in stabilizing his emotions (breathing exercises, etc.). I have an afflicted 3rd and have autism and I had issues when young where I did not communicate and I still suffer from anxiety attacks. Part of the reason I have improved with time is through self improvement and my own motivation to do better. I think it is harder for those who give up easily and some people need more encouragement than others. I often would do better in spite of lack of encouragement due to having Mars in Aries in the 10th and 5 fire planets. Plus, I learned to understand my strengths and weaknesses and be OK with them. Everyone is very different in that regard, so you want to look at the whole chart. Also, since the Moon is involved and Mercury is the 6th house, one contributing factor could be an unstable home life. So, keeping a permanent residence and stable support system could help.

You mentioned you have Moon-Saturn square, so you are likely a very solid and strong person (I have this as well, also Moon in the 6th) but you could also lack some emotional connection, or your child could sense that you keep them at a distance. Hopefully, you are aware of whatever that aspect represents for you. It could be that you have been given these children of need to learn more about yourself and how to express your emotions to those you love in healthy ways. One of my sisters also has the same aspect and we are both very hardened people due to difficult life circumstances. One thing the Moon square Saturn from the 6th does well is work well under pressure and it is also something that likes to serve others and help them. For me, I work in the medical field.

Is Mercury retrograde, stationary or slow? An opposition is a difficult aspect but both planets are in signs that suit the planets pretty well. Is Mercury in aspect with Mars or Saturn?

If the aspect between Moon and Mercury are separating, the influence may get better with time, but the main source of strength is Mercury's own essential dignity, which shows they have some natural skills in things like writing and technology. Often it is said that applying aspects can be more stressful. In my opinion, knowing the planets they are applying and separating from are pretty important, but that is probably because I am a horary person and look at those details more than some other people do.

Quote:

I had difficult c sec with both and uneasy pregnancies esp with my daughter. But both have moon/jup in 12H and amulten venus. I am a virgo moon, aries asc, scorp sun. Jupiter in fall and 6H moon sq saturn. I've not had an easy life. My venus is 2 lib conj pluto in 6H along with mars conj uranus there too.


I think Jupiter rising was a time of release then for the difficult pregnancy and not a negative influence. As someone who looks at horary/event charts a lot, I find it strange that a difficult pregnancy would occur when Jupiter is in the 12th house of the person being born (this being a birth event in addition to a natal chart). It makes more sense to have difficult pregnancies when malefics are on the angles but I don't know much about pregnancies/ birth moments in astrology. Any event seems more likely to be difficult if malefics are angular and benefics are cadent, and I would think, say, Saturn on the ascendant would be more difficult than Jupiter in the 12th. Typically, medical (decumbiture) charts look at the moment an illness/procedure occurs, so a pregnancy event would be looked at for the moment the water broke rather than the birth moment, so maybe Jupiter in the 12th is just a coincidence or a family trait that is shared. My family has a lot of people with Saturn in Cancer (I don't have it but their Saturn sits on my ascendant).

Often during events, I see matters improve when Jupiter starts to rise on the eastern horizon (the ascendant) and moves towards to the 12th onward. Basically, I would hypothesize that your going into labor first occurred when a malefic influence was strong and this was alleviated when Jupiter started to rise from below the earth. This is just a guess, though.

Also, the Moon helps describe the mother in astrology so their shared influence could be partly describing you. Maybe they feel like you are very difficult to understand emotionally so you might work on communicating your feelings more to them as well so they understand you better and learn to have healthier emotional expression.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
starlight



Joined: 01 Nov 2017
Posts: 3

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:38 pm    Post subject: re: Reply with quote

Quote:
You mentioned you have Moon-Saturn square, so you are likely a very solid and strong person (I have this as well, also Moon in the 6th) but you could also lack some emotional connection, or your child could sense that you keep them at a distance. Hopefully, you are aware of whatever that aspect represents for you. It could be that you have been given these children of need to learn more about yourself and how to express your emotions to those you love in healthy ways. One of my sisters also has the same aspect and we are both very hardened people due to difficult life circumstances. One thing the Moon square Saturn from the 6th does well is work well under pressure and it is also something that likes to serve others and help them. For me, I work in the medical field.


Thanks so much for responding to me Tannit Smile Re: above - I do think I'm very strong. I had a rough rough childhood and my parents' nightmare relationship has taken a toll on me and is in a way, always ongoing. Some would suggest I'm the emotionally/mentally strongest person they know. Most would not believe me if I told them of all I had lived through - they just would not be able to guess from my current situation of having a nice family, home, career, etc. that I could have made it on my own without therapy, family support, etc. But I think that for me, I'm not really so strong as I am fortunate enough to be very well balanced. I am very self aware and very practical. The only aspect in my natal other than jup in fall cap is mars/uranus trine saturn. I have mars rising in 6H and venus conj pluto there. My sun in scorp 7H. But I don't have a lot of aspects in my chart per se or any of particular note I think except for that trine. I am told I have a bad jup but it sextiles my sun nevertheless and my saturn isn't bad in gemini 3H. I don't know that I have all common sense about me (I think my 6 yr old daughter has much more!) but I have conj nep/merc in 8H which I suspect has given me a lot of my strengths - I've been able to read people well, I have a very strong ability to focus and very good instincts.

With my son - his merc/moon are EXACT conj. Merc R would suggest separating, I guess? He loves tech, has a Uranus in H1. I have a harder time understanding him than my daughter. But he and I are more alike than my daughter and I.

The c sections for both my kids happened the day before they were to bee lined up for a c section actually. In my son's case, he was already 7 days past due (my first kid). I was scheduled anyway for a csec. He was not "sunnyside up" and I had terrible back labor. I was heavily drugged up throughout labor but once labor hit, we had failure to progress. Ultimately, after hours, there was spiking of heartbeat, my fever so we did csec. It was horrible - they didn't drug me enough and post op over drugged that landed me in ER shortly after due to heavy gas pains. My son was always more bonded to my husband as my daughter to me. I had a smoother delivery with my daughter although her preg was terrible - I had anemia, gest diabetes, metallic taste in my mouth throughout no matter what I ate, she sat horizontal in me the whole preg and screwed up my back and really terrible pre partum depression that first trimester. She too though came before my schedule csec as the result of how hard it was for me to breath and move - I just made it to 40 weeks but the day before, I went into labor Smile With her, the delivery was in a difft hospital and that dr was awesome.

I don't know - I'm a pretty hands on mom even though I work. My kids had nannies and do aftercare in school but beyond that I'm with them every night, I don't work travel. My husband is also very hands on dad and always around as well. Unlike a lot of families, we are both with our kids. We both do the sleep put down routine together esp when they were younger. I also have a lot of work flex working from home and very in tune with their needs.

While both my kids have moon in 12H, your words about the focus, confidence, emotions apply much more to my son. My daughter is amazing with the above. I'm very blessed that my kids and I are very close. Whether they feel I truly understand them I don't know but so far, we're pretty good. Stability is def there for them. Hell, for the first 5 years I was a sleep nazi with their sleep schedule LOL It's like groundhog day at my house when they were younger. No, we have other prob maybe but stability is not one of them Smile My kids are really good with change and travels when opportunity arises I suspect because they are so grounded daily.

One thing I am happy about is the ability to play piano with my daughter and do art with my son. To share a passion with my kids and to have them enjoy it is something that I'm so grateful for. I say to my kids often that even when I'm not with them, I'm still with them meaning I'm always with them in spirit. I'm pretty sure that they know how loved they are by their parents. I wonder if the moon in 12H indicates that I'm always around to protect them? Exactly because of my horrible childhood and parental relationships, I am extremely conscientious of my relationships with my kids and I take the job of mom very seriously - my kids always come first.

In terms of jupiter I don't know but my daughter and I have many jupiter connections including my jup trine her mars and her moon/jup and conj her pluto/venus. Not sure how jupiter synastry between kid/parent signifies but she and I are so bonded. It does seem more than a coincidence for both of them to have jupiter and moon in 12H eh?

Thanks so much for your insights!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Nativities & General Astrology All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated