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Zodiac: from Sidereal Sassanian to Tropical zodiac

 
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carriere.francois



Joined: 26 Jun 2007
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Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:03 pm    Post subject: Zodiac: from Sidereal Sassanian to Tropical zodiac Reply with quote

Hello,

I am looking for the moment when the Sassanian passed from a sidereal Helleno-Sassanian zodiac to a tropical zodiac. Early writings (Masha'Allah or Abu'Mashar, as translated by Dr Benjamin Dykes in Persian Nativities I-III) seem to show it was based on sidereal zodiac. About al-Qabisi, I can't tell. In any case the reference was the star zeta Piscium. James Holden (A History of Horoscopic Astrology) seems to have same opinion. Perhaps I think it was around the 9th or 10th century and because sidereal tables (the "zij") may have not been available anymore. Am I correct? Maybe Martin Gansten will want to briefly comment on this issue?
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François CARRIÈRE
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4910
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

carriere.francois wrote:
Quote:
I am looking for the moment when the Sassanian passed from a sidereal Helleno-Sassanian zodiac to a tropical zodiac. Early writings (Masha'Allah or Abu'Mashar, as translated by Dr Benjamin Dykes in Persian Nativities I-III) seem to show it was based on sidereal zodiac. About al-Qabisi, I can't tell. In any case the reference was the star zeta Piscium. James Holden (A History of Horoscopic Astrology) seems to have same opinion. Perhaps I think it was around the 9th or 10th century and because sidereal tables (the "zij") may have not been available anymore. Am I correct? Maybe Martin Gansten will want to briefly comment on this issue?


As this question is historical and concerns a change in technique I would suggest you repost this in the Traditional forum. I think your more likely to get responses there too.

regards,

Mark
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 1135
Location: California, USA

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

carriere.francois wrote:
Quote:
I am looking for the moment when the Sassanian passed from a sidereal Helleno-Sassanian zodiac to a tropical zodiac. Early writings (Masha'Allah or Abu'Mashar, as translated by Dr Benjamin Dykes in Persian Nativities I-III) seem to show it was based on sidereal zodiac. About al-Qabisi, I can't tell.

I had this exact same question. When I looked into this question a while ago, I think I came to the conclusion that the change-over began during Al-Qabisi's time period since Masha'Allah was clear in using a sidereal zodiac. (Persian Nativities I, p. 16) Of course if we had the dates when specific tables were introduced we would have our answer. I'll see if I can find my notes on this and post my findings a little later.
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is now a thread on this question on the traditional form so please post any further replies there.

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9870

Thanks

Mark
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