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Signatures for Lying and Deception

 
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Location: California, USA

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:00 pm    Post subject: Signatures for Lying and Deception Reply with quote

I had made some posts for this subject before I realized that this topic was on the Traditional forum where sidereal posts haven't been allowed. So in the event that the posts may be deleted, I'm copying them here.
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Konrad wrote:
One of the most obvious configurations is Mars in harsh aspect with Mercury. Joseph Goebbels is a prime example. Though I will add that either Mercury or Mars have to rule something important in the chart such as Fortune, Spirit or the ASC otherwise everyone born with the aspect would be deceitful.

Martin wrote:
I see that Valens mentions lies (pseusmata) in his list of significations for Mars. I have certainly seen it in practice, such as when an undignified Mars is rising in a nativity.

Mark wrote:
I did a quick google check on the most famous frauds and liars.

I quickly came up with this chart which seems to nail so many signatures. And perhaps that is really the point. Finding several testimonies...
https//www.astro.com/astro-databank/Gerhartsreiter,_Christian

My analysis below is obviously based on the tropical zodiac but I will be interested in sidereal takes on this chart too.
(...)
7 Mercury on South Node
8 Mercury in applying trine to Mars
(...)
The themes of a debilitated Mercury and Mars are very prominent here. Mars is the night triplicity ruler of his sect light indicating that Mars in fall will be a major player in his later life.
(...)
I am seeing the Mercury-Mars connection in an awful lot of charts. Although not just square and opposition. The conjunction, trine and even the sextile.

If we add Ketu (Moon's south node) to a Mercury-Mars combination we are seeing a suggested signature for fraud and deception. I have just seen a televised biography of Bernie Madoff who operated the largest investor fraud ever committed by a single person, a massive Ponzi scheme. He also carried on secret extra marital affairs.

We do have a timed birth chart for Bernie as well as for Christian Gerhartsrseiter. Another very famous con artist is Frank Abagnale a check forger who masqueraded as at least eight different identities including an airline pilot, physician and lawyer. Frank’s story was made into an award winning movie, “Catch Me If You Can,” and starred Leo Di Caprio. We don’t have a timed chart for Frank, but it would be interesting if Leo were prominent in his timed chart.

If we study these three birth charts together, certain patterns stand out if we use the overlap of navamsa (9th harmonic) planets, critical to the analysis of charts in India. I don’t think we can get a total grasp of the potential for deception without the overlapping navamsa planets. As always, I use the sidereal zodiac with the Krishnamurti ayanamsa.





In Christian’s chart Mercury is conjunct Ketu and the Sun at the top of the chart (nonagesimal, zenith point) and (as Mark pointed out) trine Mars. Sidereal Taurus rises in this chart, and ascendant lord Venus is with Ketu in the navamsa chart, both conjunct natal Sun and Mercury in the natal 10th sign. Navamsa planets act like conjunctions to natal planets if the orbs are fairly close. So we have this line-up in Christian’s chart in the 10th sign: Ketu-Venus (asc lord)-Sun-Mercury-Ketu trine Mars (7th and 12th lord).

Then if we take Bernie Madoff’s chart, he also has Ketu at the zenith point with Venus and Mars. Mercury comes into the equation as it crosses to this triple conjunction from the navamsa chart. Bernie has a double Mars-Mercury contact as navamsa Mars conjoins natal Mercury-Moon-Sun. Pluto, Rahu and the Sun from the navamsa cross to Neptune in the 2nd house (equal cusps at center of houses). In Bernie’s chart Mercury is lord of the 11th house of gain, and the 2nd house of financial resources. Bernie has Leo rising in both the tropical and sidereal zodiacs with Regulus on the ascendant. He has earned the title of ‘King of Fraud.’

Both Christian and Bernie have a Mars-Moon-Sun conjunction, Christian in the navamsa chart in Sagittarius (8th natal house) and Bernie has navamsa Mars conjunct natal Moon and Sun in Aries in the 9th.

An interesting note about both these chart is that the Sun is strong in the sidereal zodiac, in Aries for Bernie in the 9th house and in the 10th house for Christian. To pull off massive deception and to be trusted and respected by others, one has to project a great deal of confidence and charm, and possess genuine ‘chutzpah.’ Valens gives wealth to Aries, and the old texts give confidence and authority to Aries and the Sun.



If we turn to Frank Abagnale’s untimed birth chart, he has a Mercury-Sun-Rahu (north node) conjuction in Aries, and from the navamsa Ketu crosses to this conjunction. Mars doesn’t aspect this conjunction, but navamsa Mercury crosses to Frank’s natal Mars-Saturn-Pluto. After his arrest, Frank went on to work with the government, helping the FBI and banks to track down fraud.

All three of these men were consummate actors, helped along by a dare devil personal self confidence. The Gauquelins isolated Jupiter as the planet of actors. Frank has the natal Moon-Jupiter conjunction in Sagittarius. Bernie has Jupiter on the descendant squaring Ketu-Venus-Mars at the zenith. Christian’s navamsa Jupiter crosses to the natal MC.

From the sidereal point of view, rather than emphasizing planets in weak signs, the picture is that planets strongly placed allowed others to trust these men as they projected charm and confidence. In Jyotish Ketu can be the great deceiver, placing a veil of illusion over the truth, much like Neptune is believed to do in western astrology.
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 1118
Location: California, USA

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bernie Madoff will go down in history as one of the greatest con artists of all time. He operated his Ponzi scheme for decades. His sidereal sign positions are interesting as they are so positive:

Sun is exalted in natal Aries and in its own sign Leo in the navamsa chart.
Mars is in its own sign of Aries in the navamsa chart.
Venus (10th lord) which is in partile square to the ascendant is in its own sign (Taurus) and triplicity.

So rather than making a moral judgement these positions allowed Bernie Madoff to have a very successful (but fraudulent) life and career for decades. Without Ketu we wouldn't be able to see the possibility of deception and fraud. It's interesting that from the navamsa Ketu conjoins natal Jupiter on the descendant (partnerships and exchanges with others), Jupiter being the planet of truth and morality.
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Therese Hamilton



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Location: California, USA

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haldane's chart below illustrates that a Mars-Mercury contact can operate in a constructive healthy way in contrast to the three charts above.

Pankajdubey wrote:
Quote:
A lot of physicist and engineers will have this combination- someone closer
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Haldane,_John_Scott

I think it is the ones that have exalted planets rise in station and get visible , good or bad.
BTW many Nobel laureates do have the Mercury -Mars inconjunct - even the Physicists.

For contrast to the three criminal charts above, here is the chart of John Scott Haldane referenced by Pankaj. (Scottish writer, scientist, philosopher and physiologist.)



Again we have an exalted Sun at the top of the chart which receives the trine of Mars in Sagittarius, but also the square of Saturn above the ascendant. Mercury does receive the square of Mars from Sagittarius, but Mars itself receives the partile opposition of Jupiter which no doubt places Mars on the high road.

From the navamsa Mercury stands alone in its own triplicity on the natal 7th cusp. There is no contact of Ketu with either Mercury or Mars in natal or navamsa charts. So the exalted Sun trine Mars can indicate a successful career without the duplicity of Ketu.
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Last edited by Therese Hamilton on Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Location: California, USA

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For students of Traditional astrology in A History of Horoscopic Astrology (pp. 12-13) James Holden mentions that the early decans were subdivided into thirds of 3°20' which could quite possibly be the origin of the Hindu navamsas. I know I've seen 'the ninths' mentioned in early western texts, but don't have time to check for references. Holden notes that the 3°20' subdivisions were called in Greek leitourgoi 'ministers' and in Latin munifices 'duty-officers.' So the ninths aren't a foreign entry into traditional astrology, although we lack examples of their use.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jonathan Aitken
A fourth famous person convicted of massive financial fraud is Jonathan Aitken whose chart was discussed a number of years ago on the old AstroDatabank site. Aitken was a respected politician, a member of Parliament who became Chief Secretary to the Treasury. For 15 years Aitken’s patron had been Price Mohammed, the son of of the Saudi King Fahd. As a ‘fixer’ Aitken was at the center of financial intrigue in the halls of wealth and power.

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Aitken,_Jonathan

It’s exciting to see that patterns in Aitken’s birth chart conform exactly to the three fraud charts discussed above. Also with a fourth chart to compare, several other similarities are apparent which will be pointed out in another post. Aitken’s sidereal Krishnamurti chart is below with the navamsa planets around the outside of the natal chart.



As in the other three charts, Aitkin’s chart has a prominent Sun, this time in Leo on the ascendant. The Sun is contained between Rahu and Mars, both in Leo. Aitkin has been described as clever, ruthless, formidable and charming. Again Mercury is conjunct Ketu, Mercury (with Neptune) crossing to Aquarius to natal Ketu in the 7th house (equal cusp at center of house).

Falling on the natal angles, Mercury in the navamsa receives the close square from Mars (on the natal nadir). Western astrologers will be pleased to see Neptune with Mercury as well. In this case Mercury-Neptune conjoin Aiken’s navamsa ascendant (which falls in the natal 2nd house of financial resources).

As in the other three charts, Jupiter is prominent as well, as navamsa Jupiter falls in the degree of the natal M.C., and conjoins the Moon. So in four charts (so far) the similar patterns are:

Mercury-Ketu-Mars association
Powerful angular Sun
Prominent Jupiter
Additional patterns to be discussed in another post

As I mentioned earlier we wouldn't be seeing similar patters without the overlap of navamsa planets to the natal charts. So India is correct that a birth chart can't be adequately interpreted without the navamsa chart, although India places emphasis on the chart itself. Only recently are we seeing the natal/navamsa planetary overlapping technique in Indian texts such as C. S. Patel's books. However the technique has been hidden way in the more obscure Indian texts as Patel points out.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Additional Patterns in the Fraud/Deception Charts

Jupiter, planet of morality, truth and law:
Of the eight zodiacal sign positions (4 natal, 4 navamsa--D9 for division 9) only one Jupiter is in dignity in its own sign. Frank Abagnale’s natal Jupiter is in Sagittarius with the Moon. After his career of assumed identities and fraudulent checks he turned to helping the government and banks track down fraud. He was still working in that capacity as of 2016.

Jupiter’s sign positions:
Madoff: natal Aquarius; D9 Scorpio
Gerhart: natal Capricorn (fall), D9 Capricorn; Saturn conjunct Jupiter
Aitken: natal Gemini; D9 Taurus; D9 Jupiter conjunct natal Saturn
Abagnale: natal Sagittarius; D9 Taurus

Sun-Moon Contact in Fire Signs:
Madoff: Aries Sun-Moon conjunction
Gerhart: D9 Sun-Moon conjunct in Sagittarius
Aitken: Leo Sun trine Aries Moon
Abagnale: Aries Sun trine Sag Moon

These contacts are 100 percent in the Aries Triplicity. In 3 cases the Sun is exalted or in its own domicile of Leo.

Mars joins the Sun in three charts:
Madoff: D9 Mars conjunct natal Sun-Moon (Aries)
Gerhart: D9 Mars-Moon-Sun conjunction (Sagittarius)
Aitkin: Sun-Asc-Mars conjunction (Leo)

Sun conjoins Rahu in three charts:
Madoff: D9 Rahu-Sun in Leo
Aitken: Rahu-Sun-Asc in Leo
Abagnale: Rahu-Sun in Aries

In Lunar Nodes Celeste Teal states that Rahu intensifies any planet it conjoins. In several literary sources Rahu is associated with material prosperity and worldly influence as well as a fair amount of luck. (U.S. president Donald Trump has a Sun-Rahu conjunction.) The negative side of Rahu’s influence on the Sun is arrogance and egotism, but with the ability to break out of societal molds. Rahu-Sun also gives natural entrepreneur abilities.

Michael Laughrin (Michael@jyotish.ws) says that in ‘low thinkers’ Rahu is the criminal and con artist, the fast-talking trickster.

In summary, the influence of Mercury with Mars along with the Moon’s nodes, Rahu and Ketu, natural ability and a potent solar influence has helped these man become criminal masterminds in the financial area. It is significant that in the three timed charts we have, Mercury is the (sidereal) lord of the second house of financial resources.
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