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No, dude - I'm not letting you get away with that! :lol: The first 12th cusp aspect was a trine to Saturn.

The 12th cusp represents loss in my Vedic world.

My 'lucky' pick was easy.

In my Rishi Universe, amongst other things, Mars rules gem stones.

Your Su/Ma 21:00 pick is up against:-

Red Master and Beauchamp Opal.

Quick spin through the Solar Arcs for all three 'Addey Picks'...

Red Master - it's Solar Arc Mars is just over 3 degrees away from Racing MC, but exactly square Racing POF.

Beauchamp Opal - it's Solar Arc Mercury is exacly conjunct the Race Angle.

Light Gunner - it's Saturn is within 1 degree of the Racing POF.


Now, just to pour some reality into our whimsical bowl of dreams...

Overall, Beauchamp Opal & Light Gunner are joint 3rd best horses in the race, but Beauchamp Opal has run faster than Light Gunner in their last 4 races.

Looking at the stats, I just can't understand why Red Mster is fav, but that could just be me being a complete can.
If it's not astronomically true, it's not astrologically true.

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Are we approaching the zone where we judge our astrology by Newton?s apple (see my previous post). What we do is no different than any other area of astrology and if astrology is to be judged by knowing what will happen to an individual on an hour by hour basis each day we can close down Skyscript now.

There are nativities for jockeys in this country and the USA, together with timed events for victories (in this country it is down to 100th of a second). We also have timed natal charts for horses as well. If any analysis of any technique with any house system is desired to be researched then the data is there already.

We don?t seem to know what we mean by successful, is ?88 equating to ?6000, 88p equating to ?60, a series of 88p (on average) bets slowly building up to ?60, consecutive number of winning horses, consecutive wins/places, etc. the right measure. I know how non-astrologers would judge how successful we are.

If anyone was daft enough to bet on my picks at Aintree and Cheltenham I believe they would not be out of pocket. It?s good enough by my standards.

When armed with a natal chart and any technique, what are we expecting, possibly that a particular sensitive point is being activated? I may be playing all the rights notes but not necessarily in the right order but if that/those sensitive points cross the Ascendant during a day then maybe an event could occur!!

Back to the world of qualitative time, I?ll leave JAM to others. We currently have Jupiter crossing the Ascendant and Mars the MC during race times each day. When Sovereign Debt won with Moon on the Ascendant and a female owner was noted, within a few minutes at other venues and Moon still on the Ascendant the trainer Jessica Harrington won and jockey Josephine Gordon won. It?s not Newton?s apple but there is a qualitative theme.

There is a traditional technique of horse colours and setting out for the race at a certain time which exists. Perhaps this can be disregarded along with the contents of the rest of the book it is in. However, this method has also provided results but it helps to see the horse close up first.

Anyhow, I?m not put off; I?m content enough that what I?m doing is providing a level of success far better than when I wasn?t using astrology. We have our own little ritual about how we go about it, for those of you more spiritually inclined.

On the theme of ritual it makes me ponder whether keeping a ?pick? private or making it public has any difference and whether the astrologer joining with the event, that is placing a bet, also has an effect.

To that extent, we are heading south in a few days and should be experimenting at Sandown on Saturday. I?ll also happily join in with anything at Ascot next week and am prepared to sink without trace!!

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Ok, but i have 1000's of winning charts to prove that JAM does work. You once posted that you thought that a system should have 90% accuracy. I believe you need to lower your expectations a little. 90% win rate is never going to happen. I also remember that you posted that you used whole sign houses with JAM, which completely goes against the theory of campanus houses. Little wonder you have no faith in it.
How many charts taken from the same period were losers? And by winners and losers, we'd have to ignore gambling wins and look at actual race winners since we are not setting the election to win a bet.

I said I used whole-sign houses for football charts, I have never mentioned what I used with Addey's method though I'd hope you'd give me enough credit to assume that I used his method as he set it out before I decided it wasn't working to a decent level of accuracy.
That's a little bit like saying 'all 18th September Virgos will fall off a ladder tonight'
No, it isn't. You said the only variable is the first aspect of the 5th cusp, if that is the case, and in two races run on the same day we have Mars as the first aspect in the same house, sign and making the same aspects in each chart, I think it is fair to expect a Mars themed horse to win. Looking at the Sun to predict a huge swathe of people's day as identical is nowhere near that.
Our conversation is at an impasse for several reasons. But let me ask you this one last question; How are you going to find an accurate birth chart for a horse?
Why would you use a horse's chart? Horse racing is a human endeavour and any success or failure therein is a human experience.
All that is happening here is that the same old predictable arguments are being recycled, yet again.
It is a shame you feel that way, but if the same arguments have been going around for years, maybe they haven't been refuted properly? Ultimately, the greatest and most incisive refutation would be someone demonstrating its accuracy rate to be significantly higher than the very best non-astrological predictor for long period of time. From there, that success would then have to be replicated by other people to show that it is the method and not some other ability of the individual astrologer.
http://www.esmaraldaastrology.wordpress.com

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john wrote:We also have timed natal charts for horses as well.
I know we have dates of foaling for most horses but I had never heard of having times before. Any information would be interesting.

Where can we get these.

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Hi GB

If you have Solar Fire 9 there is a list of timed charts for famous horses. The time of birth is also available on the internet for Frankel and his first foal Cunco.

I will pm you as well.

31
I look forward to the royal ascot. I never expect to find a method to work consistently; bookies would have left the racing business long time ago in that case. But I do believe when one becomes more selective in predicting, i.e. picking up races with very dominating theme/planet, the success rate can be enhanced.

For example, the late races in royal ascot week have Venus in taurus on descendant. 20 June - 5pm game, in particular, has moon/venus conjunction.

In stock market investment, people create 'thematic' portfolios, for example Warren Buffet's value investment, or US high growth technology stocks. In my view, picking up a planetary theme of a racing chart, is the same concept. The only difference is at investment world, people compare the return of a portfolio, normally a selection of 30+ stocks against the return of benchmark, e.g. S&P500. Warren buffet only has his average return better than the S&P500 over a long period of time, but he never pick up the top 10 stocks of the year.

However, this is not possible for us, because the horse racing returns are highly skewed. No one would in practise, buying up all the Jupiter horses in a race. But we would certainly perform better, than people who buy all the horse, Obviously! :) -- Anyway, this is a view from a non professional astrologer.

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Unprofitable doesn't mean the astrology methodology fails. If the return (odds) of horse betting is more normally distributed (a statistical term which roughly means we have equal chance of positive returns and negative returns in the same magnitude), we could be much better off.
Last edited by hera on Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

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hera wrote:
GB wrote:
john wrote:We also have timed natal charts for horses as well.
I know we have dates of foaling for most horses but I had never heard of having times before. Any information would be interesting.

Where can we get these.
Although we couldn't find the birth time, if we are really determined, we could look at each horse' previous winning races to analyse which planets are highlighted, as long as they have a decent record...We are very likely ending up with more than one planet though, better than nothing in the theory.

As a beginner, I went through all the synastries of 40 horse' natal charts in this year's grand national, because it was my first ever astro race and I have loads of time to kill. Half of the horses had multiple good transits, making sense! because otherwise they wouldn't be able to attend this high profile race at the first place.

--One extreme example I came across lately is Diore Lia for the Derby, nicknamed Diore (venus) the explorer (jupiter, and it was running for charity), being a 1:1000 outsider as venus/uranus conjunctino on descendant. The synastry has to be looking good given the context.

What I learnt in the last grand national, is the horse I picked for good transits, could lead the race at some stage (having their moments?but not last. And for the winner? - I have long forgotten it in the process since there are many other candidates with more promising transits.


It feel completely different between 1) looking at the the synastry of a race and its winner ex post and 2) looking at the synastry of a race and all its contestants ex ante. Same with the poetic approach.

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GB wrote:
As an example, today (10th) at Haydock in the 2.55 we had the C. 5th next aspect to Jupiter. (Note I only use Ptolemaic aspects to the planet, not semisquares, and not antiscia). Jupiter itself was rising in the 1st, less than three degrees from the Ascendant, and stationing direct. This selected Jupiter for me. Many authorities give ?Handsome? to Jupiter. The horse Handsome Dude carried purple silks (Jupiter gives the Imperial Purple).

Result from multiple testimonies was that Handsome Dude won at 8/1

I should emphasise that this does not always work, but multiple testimonies particularly if they include the colour, often works very well. A single indication such as C. 5th on its own often fails.
Maybe the Arabs are worthy of consideration here too.
The part of Horsemanship was in Libra ruled by Venus, in the Terms of Jupiter, in the 1st 5 degrees from the ASC and 3 degrees from Jupiter.


As for why Addey sometimes works and sometimes not, it may be a matter of is the chart radical, and in this context that may mean considering the placement of the part of Horsemanship.

36
We don?t seem to know what we mean by successful, is ?88 equating to ?6000, 88p equating to ?60, a series of 88p (on average) bets slowly building up to ?60, consecutive number of winning horses, consecutive wins/places, etc. the right measure. I know how non-astrologers would judge how successful we are.


I assume that most contributors to these threads like a bet and there's at least one who thinks that they're entitled to make a comfortable living out of it. If you make more money than you lose, regardless of the amount being staked, you're a winner.

The only way to make monet from horse racing is to have a betting plan or strategy. There are lots of different systems available on the internet, find the right one for you.

ROI - return on investment is the most obvious way to judge 'betting success'. If you make about 30-40% ROI over the course of a season, you're doing well.

Of course, you don't need a win rate of say, 1 in 3 to have a positive ROI. Backing one 8/1 winner returns more in profit than 7 winners at evens.
Anyhow, I?m not put off; I?m content enough that what I?m doing is providing a level of success far better than when I wasn?t using astrology. We have our own little ritual about how we go about it, for those of you more spiritually inclined
.

Exactly and bingo!
What JAM does, in my experience, is to increase ROI over the course of time. JF even states this in his book. I am absolutely convinced that JAM significantly improves these chances over the course of a season as opposed to when not doing so - i.e astrologers will have a higher ROI than the average punter. Or they should do, at any rate.
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