We vote for political parties and not for individuals in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

I would suggest chart data concerning political parties would be more appropriate for this topic.

Otherwise, any chart data referring to Corbyn would have to be matched to that of the National Socialist Sturgeon - for it is she who would pull the strings in any configuration of a Lib/Lab/Water Melon* coalition.

*Water Melon - The Greens (green on the outside, red on the inside).

Jupiter, the natural signifier of the Conservative party, turns direct on the 13th June (exactly on the point of Mars,the significator of the establishment in the cardinal grand cross of April 2014).

From November 2018 on, we are looking at deals galore and more importantly, commercial upswing that benefits the ordinary working man/woman/them.

BREXIT will glorious and inspired.

Vote for Jupiter - the natural signifier of the Conservative and Union Party.

I am convinced this Government applies astrology to it's policy.

ModWasp wrote

I would suggest chart data concerning political parties would be more appropriate for this topic.

A promising start until you launch into a rather offensive analysis.

ModWasp wrote:

Otherwise, any chart data referring to Corbyn would have to be matched to that of the National Socialist Sturgeon - for it is she who would pull the strings in any configuration of a Lib/Lab/Water Melon* coalition.

Nicola Sturgeon leads the Scottish National Party not the ''National Socialist'' party which as I am sure you are all too aware was the party of Adolf Hitler!

Modwasp wrote:

*Water Melon - The Greens (green on the outside, red on the inside).

Please stick to the astrology and keep clear of such politically pejorative language.

ModWasp wrote:

Jupiter, the natural signifier of the Conservative party, turns direct on the 13th June (exactly on the point of Mars,the significator of the establishment in the cardinal grand cross of April 2014).

Its true the opening of poll chart does have the Conservatives indicated by Moon in Sagittarius but where are you getting the notion that it is the natural significator for the party full stop? Historically, there is quite a strong connection between the Conservatives and Scorpio.

From November 2018 on, we are looking at deals galore and more importantly, commercial upswing that benefits the ordinary working man/woman/them.

Astrology?

Mowasp wrote:

BREXIT will glorious and inspired.

This kind of naked political partisanship is really not on here. Your in breach of mundane Forum guidelines here. Please check out the forum guidelines:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5239

I dont care what politics anyone has either right , left or centre. The Skyscript mundane forum is not a political soapbox.

ModWasp wrote:

Vote for Jupiter - the natural signifier of the Conservative and Union Party.

Because....they are your chosen party? Its kind of neat that Jupiter the great benefic looks after your preferred political party. Have you anything more substantial to offer than political propaganda?

ModWasp wrote:

I am convinced this Government applies astrology to it's policy.

I hear astrologers make this kind of comment all the time. But I can think of many astute political reasons why Theresa May has selected this time which have absolutely nothing to do with astrology. Its not really surprising though that a politician in a strong polling position and riding high in approval ratings has this reflected in the astrology.

Mark

For Political/Mundane Astrology I use the actual Event Chart to elicit the outcome - here the 7am chart for the opening of the polling stations; the Chart of the Nation/Country in question - here the UK 1801 chart; the previous Ingress chart for the year ahead; any additional charts, such as natal charts of the prominent leaders etc.

In the Event chart I use the 10th and 4th houses for the government and opposition respectively, while the Ist house represents the matter in hand i.e. the General Election in this case. And I keep to traditional planetary rulers and to the mundane method of what each planet represents...

Cancer rises, Moon is the ruler therefore the matter in hand is very much with the Common People. Moon In Sagittarius opp Mercury in Gemini [Mercury rules the Virgo/4th/Opposition party ]: 'the People are opposed to Labour party and/or its Leader'. However there is *no* aspect between Moon and Jupiter [ruler of Pisces/10th/Tories]: 'the People have no real connection to the Tories as such.'

Station direct Jupiter, however, is in a strong position, trining Gemini Sun/Prime Minister. The Sun, in turn, squares Neptune close to a wide conjunction with the MC/Pisces: 'confusion, duplicity and deception within the ranks of the Tories'. However the ruler of the MC Jupiter stands firm with the Sun [trine]. The PM?s position is strong and she will be able to override any challenge to her leadership/role.

Mercury in Gemini/11th [political and collective ideologies represented by Parliament] rules the End of Matter/Virgo [also the House of the Opposition party]. Mercury is in opposition to the Moon, who, in turn, is separating/distancing itself from these collective notions: 'looks like the people have already made their mind up - the Opposition are isolated/alone and weak' [no further aspects to Mercury and no planets within the sign of Virgo to add to the story]

The Jupiter ruled Incumbent party will remain as such and the Moon ruled Common People in Sag will support them. [probably because there seems to be no other option, due to the ?weakness? of the opposition party: ?the People?s hands are tied?]

Shortly after the ?conclusion? of the Election, the Moon moves to a sextile with radix Jupiter at 13 deg [in 10 units of time- or the following day around mid-day] further strengthening the alliance with the Incumbent party. However there is an opposition with radix Sun shortly after, at 17deg [Full Moon]; 'some dispute with the PM and the People - the Moon splitting into various factions- possibly highlighting any ?Dissenters/Remainers??'

Two days later the Moon conjuncts radix SaturnR in Sag, ruler of the 7th House of Open Enemies, [reflecting the conjunction in the Ingress chart of March, see below] with PlutoR sitting right on top the Des.

The sign of Capricorn on the 7th could represent the EU. [with whom the UK voted to break away] The ensuing EU negotiation mandate was ?the reason? for calling the election in the first place, so Cap/7th seems to fit. Its ruler, SaturnR, trines Uranus in Aries, [from an exact trine in mid May]. So ?they? are still in touch: 'the older and younger generation Titan gods, namely the EU leaders'. The retrograde motion of Saturn [and Pluto] also indicates matters that have gone on before the Election [Brexit] and the very nature of how the outer planets are depicted in this chart and the chart of the Ingress [see below], implies the far reaching consequences that will result from the General Election.

However Jupiter, from its position in Libra of the balanced negotiator, is the overall ruler of the Moon and Saturn, who both reside in Sag. The People [and in some ways the EU leaders] have made way for King Jupiter to take over and forge ahead with the so called Mandate and some headway with this perhaps may be seen by early August when Jupiter moves to complete the Trine with the Sun?s original chart position at 17 degs Gemini.

Additional Notes:
I've not studied May or Corbyn's natal charts in detail [birth times unknown] however Corbyn's Sun at 5 Gemini conjuncts The Election chart's Mercury at 2 deg which opposes the Moon: 'his sense of self will be challenged by the Moon [The People]' and just from that aspect alone, together with the standing of Mercury in the Election chart it looks like he may loose the Cause. However his Venus and Mercury do conjunct the chart's Sun, who stands strong with Jupiter- he may continue in his Party as leader and have some sway or influence with ensuing Brexit negotiations.

The Ingress chart of 20th March has Cancer rising at 9 degrees, Moon ruler [Common People] conjuncts Saturn in Sag/6th. Saturn rules the 7th of Open Enemies. Jupiter/4th ruler of Pisces/10th/Government in T square with Uranus/Aries/10th and Pluto/ Cap/7th ....The calling of an early General Election would appear to reflect the disastrous conflicting T Square operating within Westminster, with Brexit at the heart of the matter, thus the need to resolve the situation ?for the People? who elected to leave the EU in 2016. The General Election chart reflects and fleshes out these main significators, while the Cancer rising factor, with Moon in Sag, in both charts almost mirror each other, giving emphasis to the Matter in Hand.

1801 Chart: in the General Election chart Cancer rises at 16 deg conjuncting 1801 Moon 19 Cancer 10th; Capricorn descending at 16 degrees is in wide conjunction to the 1801 Sun 10 Cap/ 4th. This Moon/Sun Opposition [although wide] is intrinsic to the nature the UK populace, in my view. There?s a lot of astrological meat to the Moon in the 1801 chart especially [too much to discuss here] but essentially the power has always been with ?the people?... known about but not acknowledged openly by the Sun/Cap establishment, who have cleverly manipulated and held the electorate to ransom over the ensuing decades, in many underhanded and devious ways.

In the General Election chart the signs of Cancer and Cap move to the 1st and 7th positions respectively vis-?-vis the Electorate v Open Enemy [of the EU establishment]. The UK Government and Opposition [as shown above] are represented by Pisces/Jupiter and Virgo/Mercury respectively. The power of the Moon [the people] appears to have spoken and seems to have called the shots in re-electing the Tories [described above] but, post Election, all will lie with Saturn [the Establishment].

As stated above Saturn here transforms into the EU bureaucratic Establishment, which the Moon encounters, as both conjoin shortly afterwards. But it looks like a case of Saturn swallowing up the Moon, who is in turn fed to the Titan Uranus, sitting high in Aries: ?the people are sacrificed- their power subjugated?. The Olympian god Jupiter, meanwhile, having taken up the reins of power continually moves forward to eventually meet with SaturnR, in an exact sextile mid to late August - also in Sign and Exaltation [Mixed Reception] - lasting throughout September until Jupiter moves into Scorpio early October. By then Jupiter will have established its superior power and negotiating base over a previously weakened Saturn, who will have just started to move forward again, to eventually re-establish its link with Uranus [mid November].

Jupiter is King until then, after that the ongoing Brexit situation will be ?in the laps of the gods? but, nevertheless, Jupiter and Saturn will be the main significators in the way of deals and negotiations throughout the coming months/years.

Has anyone ever looked at the moment Parliament is dissolved, for a general election chart?

It seems to me that the dissolution of Parliament (one minute past midnight on the 3rd of May) will be the moment of irrevocable commitment because, until that happens, there's always a possiblity of the election being cancelled. And, to my mind, it's the campaign which precedes the vote which is really the contest. As I see it, the poll itself is more akin to the judges giving their verdict ? obviously a useful chart (for the narrow question of who wins most seats, at least) but only within the constraints of previous relevant charts. There might be some wishful thinking in this, but my instinct is that Mercury stationing conjunct Uranus opposite the MC reflects the potential of the (broader) contest better than the chart for polling day.

Having said that, I generally only use astrology for getting a sense of ebb and flow, so I won't offer an interpretation (and in any case, I'm too involved to be properly objective). However, I am struck by the fact that Theresa May decided on an election while transiting Neptune was about to make its first pass conjunct her natal Mars, with Mercury, Sun and Uranus opposing her natal Neptune, in the middle of a Mercury retrograde (a retrograde which, to my eye, looks like the beginning of an unusually significant Mercury cycle, because of the resonance between the inferior Mercury/Sun conjunction at 0? 20' Taurus and the superior one at 0? 23' Cancer ? which will itself resonate with December's Sun/Saturn conjunction at 0? 10' Capricorn).

As Robert Hand says, Neptune conjunct Mars is 'not a good time to strike out to further your own interests in life' so I can't see the decision turning out well for her. Though that doesn't mean she won't significantly increase her majority ? there are several ways the election could weaken her even if the vote itself seems to strengthen her.

As an aside, after I noticed that Mercury resonance, I had a quick look at other planets. The next Mars/Sun cycle also looks unusually significant because the conjunction, on the 27th of July, at 4? 12' Leo, will be followed by an opposition next year at 4? 9' Leo/Aquarius. I only looked at a few nearby occurences of both cycles (because I don't have software that makes searching easy) so it may perhaps be more common than I'm assuming, but I couldn't see any pattern in the critical points of either Mercury or Mars cycles. I don't know exactly what significance those sort of resonances might have but I'm inclined to see them as indicators of a critical period.

Do I like that ...

"However, I am struck by the fact that Theresa May decided on an election while transiting Neptune was about to make its first pass conjunct her natal Mars, with Mercury, Sun and Uranus opposing her natal Neptune, in the middle of a Mercury retrograde (a retrograde which, to my eye, looks like the beginning of an unusually significant Mercury cycle, because of the resonance between the inferior Mercury/Sun conjunction at 0? 20' Taurus and the superior one at 0? 23' Cancer ? which will itself resonate with December's Sun/Saturn conjunction at 0? 10' Capricorn).

As Robert Hands says, Neptune conjunct Mars is 'not a good time to strike out to further your own interests in life' so I can't see the decision turning out well for her. Though that doesn't mean she won't significantly increase her majority ? there are several ways the election could weaken her even if the vote itself seems to strengthen her."

When I hear her speak she sounds deluded or very very very cynically manipulative. Both would be the effects of t.Neptune on n.Mars.

I feel she'll be worse off after this Vote though the Country may have a better Parliament. More balanced.

There must be 20,000,000 Voters out there who aren't too pleased about BREXIT.

H

The real reason for calling the General Election ? :-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ction.html

Neptune conjoining the MC of the Opening Poll chart, obscuring the truth.

However, I am struck by the fact that Theresa May decided on an election while transiting Neptune was about to make its first pass conjunct her natal Mars ..... As Robert Hands says, Neptune conjunct Mars is 'not a good time to strike out to further your own interests in life' so I can't see the decision turning out well for her.

In my view the outer planet Neptune, along with Uranus and Pluto, operates more or less as an unconscious agent in individuals? charts [unless they ?astrologically aware?]

These trans-personals are the Awakeners, mainly for the collective unconscious of groups, societies, countries and nation states. As a result certain individuals arise and become representatives of that particular zeitgeist energy: they appear to be in the right time and place for some collective ?purpose?. In Neptune?s case it may signify a ?redeemer?; ?saviour? ?rescuer? or it may spawn some ideologue with delusional fantasies of grandeur or vision...

Neptune also signifies the great social reformer. The fact it is conjunct the MC in Pisces - ?the government?- in the election chart seems at odds with the Tory agenda of traditionalism, individualism and privatisation policies etc. Neptune here squares the radix Sun from Gemini/11th who represents the P.M. ?she is this mutable, airy figure who is it odds with her party and what it represents [her recent speeches often have a socialist slant and seem to speak directly to the ordinary working classes/people, in my view]. Jupiter ruler of the MC stands firm with her [trine] as I outline in my last post.

The symbology of Neptune in Pisces and its ruler Jupiter, along with other related factors, seems well described in the election chart [whether or not the outcome of the election is as I suggest] however we can?t know the full picture of how the transit of Neptune over May?s natal Mars in Pisces will affect her on a personal level, as we don?t know her time of birth.

While her natal Mars appears isolated from the rest of her chart planetary configurations, it may lie hidden in the 12th house [some emotional or personal sacrifice?] or housed in the 4th [a relationship with a father figure may have influence through this transit?] or in an elevated position in the 10th from where she may shine, despite the opposition to natal Jupiter.

(Also the fixed star Regulus may be in close conjunction with her natal Moon, if it?s just at the end of Leo or beginning of Virgo)

Neptune entered Pisces in 2011 and will leave 2025/26: the archetype of the Great Mother Tiamat entering the primordial and chaotic Waters of the deep [represented by Pisces]. Waters that hold Memory and the Creative impulse which spawn its many and varied life forms within the great cycle[s] of Existence. Both Neptune and Pisces are symbolically powerful, deep and mysterious, Macrocosmically, but manifesting, sometimes, in ways we mortals can?t always get to grips with: earthly/geological changes; chaos/deluge, social upheavals, ?fake news? delusions and so on. So a great challenge for many societies in general during this 15 year sojourn, which in turn may result in local, national and global political reforms [a generalisation, while not referencing, here, the transit picture of the rest of the outer planets in recent times]

On page 224 of ?Mundane Astrology? by Baigent, Campion and Harvey, the section on The Planets explains:

?Neptune is associated more than any other planet with subversion, perhaps because of its rulership of ideals and links with the "ideal society." Hence it rules socialism, and all new visions and dreams of the perfect society, and the people who promote such dreams...?

A natal Mars in Pisces can operate with great inner and emotional strength and is not always a weakened position. And a Neptune transit can draw on its mythology to enhance and expose ?what lies beneath? in a very powerful way. But of course it all depends on how the ego/personality can deal with such revelations and sadly, if it?s too much to handle, it may result in patterns of breakdown or odd or unacceptable behaviour.

Liz Greene, in ?The Astrological Neptune and Quest for Redemption?, discusses Mars/ Neptune in Synastry , the symbology of which could apply equally to ?a transit to natal? situation, as is currently shown May?s chart:

?Mars, in turn, tends to flourish in the role of champion and protector, and the Mars person may feel stronger, more potent and more fulfilled because there is a worthy cause to fight for. Mars will happily play the knight and Neptune the damsel in distress; regardless of gender, this is the archetypal dynamic behind the aspect. Mars is St. George, or Perseus, or Jeanne d'Arc, full of clumsy but sincere compassion, ready to strike down the dragon and rescue the prince or princess from danger, imprisonment or the world's lack of understanding. Neptune can invoke a greater sense of power in Mars; Mars can invoke an awareness of fragility and otherworldliness in Neptune?.

In the above named book Greene expands on the Neptunian mythologies and symbologies; on salvation like expectancies within various Millennium sects and gives further personal and political implications of the planet.

Its true the opening of poll chart does have the Conservatives indicated by Moon in Sagittarius but where are you getting the notion that it is the natural significator for the party full stop? Historically, there is quite a strong connection between the Conservatives and Scorpio.

The Conservative and Unionist Party of the 1920's, for example, is rather different from the one we see today. As political parties evolve, i find it difficult to attach any of them to a sign.

Maybe i made a typo -- Jupiter is the natural signifier of Conservatism in general. There are many testimonies to hand - altruism, for example, increases during periods of conservative government.

For philosophical consideration on the subject of Conservatism, may i suggest the following reading material? The Soul of the World and How to be a Conservative by Professor Roger Scruton.

"All Juleps are made for present use, and therefore it is in vain to speak of their duration"

Jupiter, the natural signifier of the Conservative party

and

Its true the opening of poll chart does have the Conservatives indicated by Moon in Sagittarius but where are you getting the notion that it is the natural significator for the party full stop? Historically, there is quite a strong connection between the Conservatives and Scorpio.

From political science papers I downloaded many years ago, ( now the papers seem to form part of a book ?Social Democratic System? by Syed Ali Raza) to expand and to attribute astrological significators:

THE SOCIAL ENGINEERS-COLLECTIVISM: This group considers mankind the raw material from which to construct a society.....

CONSERVATISM: A political philosophy that tends to support the status quo and advocates change only in moderation. Conservatism upholds the value of tradition, and seeks to preserve all that is good about the past. Irishman Edmund Burke, in his Reflections on the Revolution in France (1790), compared society to a living organism that has taken time to grow and mature, so it should not be suddenly uprooted.

SOCIALISM: Sharing the same collective view of mankind as communism socialism is a political system in which the means of production, distribution and exchange are mostly owned by the state, and used, at least in theory, on behalf of the people (whose 'good' is decided by the legislator). The idea behind socialism is that the capitalist system is intrinsically unfair, because it concentrates wealth in a few hands and does nothing to safeguard the overall welfare of the majority..

Charles Harvey, who also references the work of Andre Barbault, in Mundane Astrology: Cycles in Practice:

Jupiter: Tends to a relaxed liberalism, tolerance, goodwill and moderation, but also a certain moral certainty and religious intolerance. A desire to "play God" encourages paternalism, benevolence from a position of authority, noblesse oblige. Essentially expansive, optimistic, encourages legislation, or negatively legalistic wranglings and disputes, national inflatus and "imperialism".

Saturn: Seeks social order, structure, planning, regulations, controls, material and social security "from womb to tomb", imposes and enforces law and order. Can be strongly disciplinarian, intolerant, extremist, tends to be protectionist, isolationist, and to build "iron curtains".

Uranus: Individualistic, independent, self-reliant, encourages free enterprise, also seeks autonomy and is liable to rebellion and revolution. Tends to be right-wing, but equally to the "fascism of the left". Once in power can be autocratic and totalitarian.

Neptune: Universal and utopian tendencies, collective values, communal, communistic, collectivist, pluralist, left-wing. Can be politically unrealistic, seeking soft options, avoiding confrontation. This can encourage devious, underhand and subversive tactics, "entryism" and "fifth column" methods.

Pluto: The power of the masses, totalitarian, compulsive collective pressures, forces of elimination, regeneration and resurgence. Relates to emerging nations and nations in a state of renaissance and reconstruction. Also to fanaticism, to an obsession with impersonal, collective ideas and ideals. Can indicate the need to purge the body politic of old, deep-rooted problems. Constellated by a leader it can awaken compulsive instincts for power and dominance.

Barbault expands his political theory through the cycles of these planets. For example he sees the Saturn/Uranus 45 year cycle (last synod 1988) essentially as a conservative/authoritarian process which emphasises the politics of order; whereas Saturn/Neptune 36 year cycle (last synod 1989) as a paramount cycle which develops socialism/communism.

Jupiter-Saturn of almost twenty years..... has always been considered of the greatest importance in shaping the course of history. These two planets used to be known as the "Great Chronocrators", or rulers of the ages. Their cycle can be considered the ground base of human development which marks the interaction between the perception of ideas, potentialities, possibilities (Jupiter) and their manifestation in the concrete material world (Saturn)..... As noted under the interpretation of the conjunction this pair has a great deal to do with the development and evolution of social structures and a sense of corporate national identity.

The official UK Labour Party (1900: Neptune 24 Gemini, resonating with Corbyn?s Gemini planets) formed out of ?Chartism? which existed from 1838 onwards [around Saturn/Neptune synod]; there is no known definitive chart for the Conservative Party whose ?Tory ideology had developed by 1681 which equally loudly supported the monarchy and the Church? (from www.parliament.uk) ie. ?the establishment?.

The Establishment is rooted in the 1066 chart: Cap/10th and the 1801 chart Cap/4th.

My conclusion is that Saturn is the overall significator for the Conservative party, enveloped and developed in continuing cycles of Jupiter and/or Uranus

The transit of Mars by the 13 ? Geminis, generates concern for UK, and Theresa May, could happen something !!!, since Theresa has MARTE in 13 ? Pisces, and at the moment Neptune is in conjunction.

NHS cyber-attack: GPs and hospitals hit by ransomware=(Attack) Mars=13?Geminis(Comunication) Square Neptune/Piscis (Hospital).

I was just checking the Moon's position running up to the Vote.

Looks like till we are all tucked up in bed late on the 7th June, the Moon will just still be in Scorpio !!

This is going to be the biggest Roller Coaster imaginable.

H

PS YouGov Poll showing Labour now ONLY -9% behind.

We'll start hearing the scare stories soon from The Tories.