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UK General Election -June 8th 2017

 
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Jens



Joined: 17 Dec 2016
Posts: 28

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:38 pm    Post subject: UK General Election -June 8th 2017 Reply with quote

New elections coming up on 8th june.
Which chart would you use? Opening of polls? Closing?

thanks
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have always found the opening of poll more reflective of the actual result. Reflecting the ancient astrological concept of inceptions or the beginning of something bringing out the full astrological potential. But both charts are useful in comparison with key natal charts and national charts.

Traditionally polls open at 7am in UK General elections. Here is the opening of poll chart.



I treat election charts as effectively contest charts. As the government have initiated the election they are assigned the ASC. The political opposition are assigned the 7th house.

Using that approach the government is symbolised by Cancer rising and the Moon in Sagittarius. As the Moon is the traditional significator of the public this is a good sign that the government are in tune with a majority of public opinion.

The Moon is placed in the 6th house by whole sign houses but the fortunate 5th by nearly all systems of sign division. It is increasing in light approaching full phase and forms a sextile to Jupiter the MC ruler. The Moon is in the bound of Jupiter. From previous general election charts I have found that Moon-Jupiter aspects are usually a sign favouring the victory of the side symbolised by either planet.

Saturn the significator of the political opposition is also in the whole sign 6th but additionally in the cadent 6th house in all systems of house division. Furthermore Saturn is retrograde. Saturn is in the bound of Mars which in the chart falls in the 1st WSH but 12th by any system of sign division. Moreover, Mars is in its sign of fall.

Using this approach I therefore see this chart supporting the interpretation of a government victory which is what the polls currently indicate.

There are additional factors that do complicate this interpretation. Neptune sits smack on the MC. This might suggest some confusion on the election result or perhaps simply lack of focus in the government itself. In isolation this might have indicated a tight result leading to a coalition. But I dont see the other chart factors favouring this myself. Undeniably the UK is very politically divided and conflicted over the wisdom of the Brexit.

Perhaps the explanation lies in the fact , the MC and Neptune are placed in the 9th WS and Equal house which is appropriate for all the focus on negotiations with the European Union and the general uncertainty on how Britain might emerge economically from the Brexit negotiations and what specific shape it will take. The EU itself is also clearly not unanimous in its attitude to the UK Brexit.

Its true Jupiter the MC ruler and both the domicile ruler of the Moon and exaltation ruler of Cancer is retrograde and placed in the 4th WSH and the 3rd by sign division using Ptolemy's 5 degree rule.

I think the Brexit can be seen in a sense as an attempt to turn back the clock historically and restore autonomy and sovereignty to the UK parliament. The Brexit taps into deep issues of national identity, and roots. So the 4th house WSH placement seems apt.

Pluto falls on the DESC reflecting the intimidating and gruelling Brexit negotiations ahead with the EU. But in terms of a contest chart this is clearly not a positive sign for the political opposition.

Its interesting how strong Venus looks in this chart. The most elevated traditional planet in the chart, near its maximum elongation from the Sun , in its sign of rulership, and in the 11th WSH or 10th house by sign division.

Its true that an oriental Venus like this is often seen a less harmonious than when in its occidental phase behind the Sun. But it is also regarded as more forceful in expression. This fits a female politician like Theresa May who is a woman leading a party dominated by men.

However, this strong Venus could also be a sign that the strongest domestic opposition Theresa May may face in the next Parliament might not be the Labour party but from the SNP led by Nicola Sturgeon in Scotland. May is likely to face sustained demands for another Scottish referendum which ultimately threaten the continued existence of the United Kingdom.

Mark
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Vicki



Joined: 14 Aug 2012
Posts: 134
Location: Nottingham U.K.

Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark thank you for drawing attention to Neptune conjoining the MC.

I am considering the possibility that there may be a "sub plot" to this call for a General Election. On the surface it's supposed to be about Brexit but I think there may be another hidden reason and this is what Neptune might be telling us.
It is very likely that the Conservatives will win and that Theresa May will increase her majority. A comfortable majority in Parliament would almost certainly ensure backing for military support for the US in its war in Syria.
The UK Parliament voted against this in 2013 (after a similar chemical attack in Syria) but that was under a Conservative/Liberal Democrat coalition.
In the current parliament it is uncertain that the Government would win a vote; far more likely with a larger majority.

Neptune can be all about deception. Note also that the ruler of the MC and Neptune is that retrograde Jupiter in Libra on the star Algorab, also sometimes associated with deception. Note that the Moon's next application is to that Jupiter.

The Moon itself is almost exactly on the malefic star Graffias in the head of the scorpion.

Also the mean nodal axis is 26 Leo/Aquarius 50 and Trumps Mars is at 26 Leo 46.

I don't like this and I do hope I'm wrong.
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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 432

Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vicki, interesting comment about Neptune conjunct the MC. I struggle to define Neptune, and you use the word deception but I wonder if cloaking, hiding, closing, would describe it? Maybe Neptune closes things off, and Pluto discloses, usually eruptively? More digital words could be Neptune closes and Pluto opens? And some things that are acted upon by these planets need to be open and some need to be closed.

All kinds of unexpected consequences and fallout seem to be emerging from this election announcement. Or maybe those in the political know did expect them.

Pluto is sitting close to the Descendant, and 45 degree semisquare to the Moon, which is opposition Mercury. Lots of power manoeuvring?
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SteveGus



Joined: 19 Sep 2011
Posts: 37
Location: Southern Indiana

Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this chart, the Moon is a sick little puppy, peregrine, in close but separating opposition to a well dignified Mercury out of the eleventh. Saturn, by contrast, is in his own face, but retrograde, and is co-ruler of 7 with Mars, and lord of 8 and (in a midheaven based chart) 9 outright.

Venus here rules 10, which seems to me to be key in any chart involving governments and public affairs. Venus rules the sign and house of Jupiter. This suggests to me that the party represented by Jupiter will prevail, but the opposition will also do well, and recover some ground they lost in the last election.

The other striking thing about the chart is the hard 12/6 opposition of Mars and Fortuna. The body politic is sick. It sees secret enemies everywhere, some of which are actually real, and is quarreling among itself. The possibility of a serious schism is very real.
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Mark
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteveGus wrote:
Quote:
In this chart, the Moon is a sick little puppy, peregrine, in close but separating opposition to a well dignified Mercury out of the eleventh. Saturn, by contrast, is in his own face, but retrograde, and is co-ruler of 7 with Mars, and lord of 8 and (in a midheaven based chart) 9 outright.


I tend to see the Moon are fairly middling here. Its not in detriment or fall and its strongly affiliated with Jupiter the benefic of sect. Its also increasing in light approaching full phase. Yes its peregrine but its strong connection to Jupiter by domicile, bound and by aspect surely offers mitigation. The Moon is in 6th by WSH but using Equal or any quadrant house system falls in the 5th. So I think this Moon has a fair bit of accidental dignity by house placement. The opposition to Mercury, is as you point out, already separating so less of a problem I think than the Moon's applying opposition to the Sun which is Lord 2 here. Surely an indicator of the financial difficulties ahead for Britain.

SteveGus wrote:
Quote:
This suggests to me that the party represented by Jupiter will prevail, but the opposition will also do well, and recover some ground they lost in the last election.


Well the main opposition are Labour. I dont see them making much ground myself. They seem too divided with many of their own MPS unable to get behind Jeremy Corbyn as the leader. The chart wouldn't be inconsistent with the Conservatives converting a slim majority into a sizeable one.

But of course there are several other opposition parties. Nationally for the Liberal Democrats the 2015 General Election was their political nadir leaving them with a paltry 8 MPS. The only way for them is up and their parliamentary group can be expected to increase significantly benefiting from the pro-remain stance the party has taken on the Brexit. But that recovery will be unlikely to prevent a clear Conservative party win.

The Scottish National Party are already in such a politically dominant position in Scotland holding 56 of the 59 seats at Westminster that the challenge for them will be to retain their current block of seats as an effective mandate for another independence referendum.

Mark
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Last edited by Mark on Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:01 am; edited 3 times in total
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2445
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi mark and others,

mark - i always enjoy and value your astro input and insight. thank you..

i am going to spin this differently, although it is hard to over-ride anything mark says, lol..

one of the challenges for me in doing astrology is in separating the different views that i might get from a chart and putting it in some context that others might understand. i just ain't thinking in traditional astrological terms, in spite of my admiration for those who can..

i see a chart that is approaching a full moon.. i see a sun that is essentially making hard aspects to neptune and saturn.. i see the moon engaged in all this too.. ignoring the question of what time of day to use for the election itself, i see these 2 outer planets as bringing more challenge and discomfort to everything here. but hopefully i am wrong and it will bring some clarity and an ability to move forward with what the uk has to work thru..

from an outsiders pov - everything in the uk presently revolves around brexit.. maybe some of it revolves around being a lapdog for the usa too in it's constant movement towards war, but mostly i think people want more clarity over the implications of brexit.. i suspect theresa may is hoping to dispel some of the confusion around this by gaining more confidence to move forward in the way she sees necessary.. i am not following the inner dynamics of british politics, so i might be totally off here.

i got a new 'used' computer and don't have my previous charts on this one to look at mays chart, or the other players charts at present, but i would like to.

the aries ingress chart replicates the same signs on the angles as marks 7am election chart - earlier degrees, but cancer rising, and pisces midheaven using tropical.. moon is in a close conjunction to saturn - both in sag and in the 6th house, 10 degrees from the descendant degree at 7 cap.. it is interesting to see this in both charts essentially. to me it suggests disappointment for the people no matter how you slice it.. i think may is damned if she does and damned if she doesn't... the ingress moon is 4 minutes short of an exact conjunction to saturn at 27sag33..

the summer ingress chart looks much more combative, so maybe in spite of what i say, it will give someone the strength to come out swinging.. again cancer rises but in this chart, the moon is in taurus close to venus, showing more strength here as well. the cap ingress chart has the same degree rising - cancer 7 or 8 basically, but the cap ingress looks strong for different reasons.. will be an interesting year for the uk from looking at these seasonal ingress charts..
more astro food for thought..
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Rocko



Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 141

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do we factor in Postal Votes ? In reality part of the Vote starts several weeks before the Main Day.

"Returning officers issue and dispatch postal ballot packs at 5 p.m. on the eleventh working day before polling day at the earliest."

What percentage are Postal Votes ?

5% ? 10% ?

Thanks to your very interesting messages. Beautifully explained by Mark.

The near Full Moon passes thru Scorpio during the several days leading up to the Election

And we know what that means, don't we !!

Here's a clue ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR0lOtdvqyg

H

PS A few after thoughts. My Electioneering skills are way too rusty to help here much except I think the Neptune MC conjunction needs to be considered.

Delusional Leadership. However, Neptune is in Pisces so that is healthier isn't it?

Here in the South I hear May on the radio making great statements of facts but they are so out of touch it frightens me.

I felt Corbyn was unelectable but yesterday he spoke very well. He's already pulled off one impossible victory.

Also I'd imagine there are about 20,000,000 Voters who want to stay in the EU. Will they vote for a BREXIT Party?

I've just about forgiven the Liberal Democrats for supporting the Tories so people might be coming back to them.

We need a feed to the Twitter Sphere ..
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Andrew Khabaza



Joined: 15 Oct 2014
Posts: 3
Location: Epsom, England, UK

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:27 am    Post subject: Jeremy Corbyn's Birth Time Reply with quote

Does any one have a reliable birth time for the Leader of the Labour Party - Jeremy Corbyn?

If not, what are people's suggestions as to how one should proceed? Sunrise chart? Noon chart? Does anyone have a rectified time?

Birth data for astrotheme.com:
26 May 1949
Chippenham, Wiltshire,UK

All advice welcome.

Andrew Khabaza
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MingWei Wang



Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 88
Location: Taiwan

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use the lord of the year, the opening of poll , and the natal charts for candidates.

Mars is the lord of the year of 2017 in London.

And the Moon rules the ascendent of the Sun Aries ingress chart in London, and Jupiter rules the Mid-heave, Venus is the amulet ruler of the Mid-heave.

Main candidates:

Theresa May, born 1 October 1956

The Sun and Venus in mutual reception ,and Mars in his Triplic. dignity who casts a sinister trine aspect to the Mars in Cancer in the chart of opening of poll.

Jeremy Corbyn, born 26 May 1949

The Sun is in Mercury's sign , and Mars is in his detriment sign and peregrine, who casts a sinister sextile aspect to the Mars in Cancer in the chart of opening of poll.

The testimonies in Theresa May's chart is stronger than Jeremy Corbyn's .

In the opening of poll chart, Venus in feminine sign as well as Mars who is the ruler of the mid-heaven.

So the winner is a woman.
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astralwanderer



Joined: 20 Dec 2012
Posts: 99
Location: Southwest England

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:05 pm    Post subject: Jeremy Corbyn - Rectification Reply with quote

Hi there - I have been using the following chart as a potential rectification for Jeremy Corbyn:

20:27
26 May 1949
Chippenham, Wiltshire,UK

This gives late Scorpio rising.



This is in whole sign house format:



The rectification was based on the placement of Saturn by transit on his ascendant at the time of his first election, square to natal Saturn. For most of the early part of his tenure he had Jupiter by transit in Virgo, the sign of his MC. Jupiter is now in Libra, conjunct natal Neptune, on the cusp of P11 or in the WS12.

The following bi-wheel is instructive showing Corbyn's chart on the inner wheel and the moment for the declaration of the vote in Parliament to have an early election.


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Vicki



Joined: 14 Aug 2012
Posts: 134
Location: Nottingham U.K.

Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another explanation for Neptune so close to the MC :-

The Conservative party is mired in an election expenses scandal from the 2015 election. This is likely to break before long and charges may follow.

Theresa May would want a higher majority to bolster her party.

We're not being told the truth - Neptune indicates something hidden - War ? Expenses? or both ?

Btw Astralwanderer - interesting rectification. Jeremy Corbyn certainly looks like a possible Scorpio.
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