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UK General Election -June 8th 2017
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Jens



Joined: 17 Dec 2016
Posts: 55

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:38 pm    Post subject: UK General Election -June 8th 2017 Reply with quote

New elections coming up on 8th june.
Which chart would you use? Opening of polls? Closing?

thanks
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Mark
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have always found the opening of poll more reflective of the actual result. Reflecting the ancient astrological concept of inceptions or the beginning of something bringing out the full astrological potential. But both charts are useful in comparison with key natal charts and national charts.

Traditionally polls open at 7am in UK General elections. Here is the opening of poll chart.



I treat election charts as effectively contest charts. As the government have initiated the election they are assigned the ASC. The political opposition are assigned the 7th house.

Using that approach the government is symbolised by Cancer rising and the Moon in Sagittarius. As the Moon is the traditional significator of the public this is a good sign that the government are in tune with a majority of public opinion.

The Moon is placed in the 6th house by whole sign houses but the fortunate 5th by nearly all systems of sign division. It is increasing in light approaching full phase and forms a sextile to Jupiter the MC ruler. The Moon is in the bound of Jupiter. From previous general election charts I have found that Moon-Jupiter aspects are usually a sign favouring the victory of the side symbolised by either planet.

Saturn the significator of the political opposition is also in the whole sign 6th but additionally in the cadent 6th house in all systems of house division. Furthermore Saturn is retrograde. Saturn is in the bound of Mars which in the chart falls in the 1st WSH but 12th by any system of sign division. Moreover, Mars is in its sign of fall.

Using this approach I therefore see this chart supporting the interpretation of a government victory which is what the polls currently indicate.

There are additional factors that do complicate this interpretation. Neptune sits smack on the MC. This might suggest some confusion on the election result or perhaps simply lack of focus in the government itself. In isolation this might have indicated a tight result leading to a coalition. But I dont see the other chart factors favouring this myself. Undeniably the UK is very politically divided and conflicted over the wisdom of the Brexit.

Perhaps the explanation lies in the fact , the MC and Neptune are placed in the 9th WS and Equal house which is appropriate for all the focus on negotiations with the European Union and the general uncertainty on how Britain might emerge economically from the Brexit negotiations and what specific shape it will take. The EU itself is also clearly not unanimous in its attitude to the UK Brexit.

Its true Jupiter the MC ruler and both the domicile ruler of the Moon and exaltation ruler of Cancer is retrograde and placed in the 4th WSH and the 3rd by sign division using Ptolemy's 5 degree rule.

I think the Brexit can be seen in a sense as an attempt to turn back the clock historically and restore autonomy and sovereignty to the UK parliament. The Brexit taps into deep issues of national identity, and roots. So the 4th house WSH placement seems apt.

Pluto falls on the DESC reflecting the intimidating and gruelling Brexit negotiations ahead with the EU. But in terms of a contest chart this is clearly not a positive sign for the political opposition.

Its interesting how strong Venus looks in this chart. The most elevated traditional planet in the chart, near its maximum elongation from the Sun , in its sign of rulership, and in the 11th WSH or 10th house by sign division.

Its true that an oriental Venus like this is often seen a less harmonious than when in its occidental phase behind the Sun. But it is also regarded as more forceful in expression. This fits a female politician like Theresa May who is a woman leading a party dominated by men.

However, this strong Venus could also be a sign that the strongest domestic opposition Theresa May may face in the next Parliament might not be the Labour party but from the SNP led by Nicola Sturgeon in Scotland. May is likely to face sustained demands for another Scottish referendum which ultimately threaten the continued existence of the United Kingdom.

Mark
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Vicki



Joined: 14 Aug 2012
Posts: 155
Location: Nottingham U.K.

Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark thank you for drawing attention to Neptune conjoining the MC.

I am considering the possibility that there may be a "sub plot" to this call for a General Election. On the surface it's supposed to be about Brexit but I think there may be another hidden reason and this is what Neptune might be telling us.
It is very likely that the Conservatives will win and that Theresa May will increase her majority. A comfortable majority in Parliament would almost certainly ensure backing for military support for the US in its war in Syria.
The UK Parliament voted against this in 2013 (after a similar chemical attack in Syria) but that was under a Conservative/Liberal Democrat coalition.
In the current parliament it is uncertain that the Government would win a vote; far more likely with a larger majority.

Neptune can be all about deception. Note also that the ruler of the MC and Neptune is that retrograde Jupiter in Libra on the star Algorab, also sometimes associated with deception. Note that the Moon's next application is to that Jupiter.

The Moon itself is almost exactly on the malefic star Graffias in the head of the scorpion.

Also the mean nodal axis is 26 Leo/Aquarius 50 and Trumps Mars is at 26 Leo 46.

I don't like this and I do hope I'm wrong.
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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vicki, interesting comment about Neptune conjunct the MC. I struggle to define Neptune, and you use the word deception but I wonder if cloaking, hiding, closing, would describe it? Maybe Neptune closes things off, and Pluto discloses, usually eruptively? More digital words could be Neptune closes and Pluto opens? And some things that are acted upon by these planets need to be open and some need to be closed.

All kinds of unexpected consequences and fallout seem to be emerging from this election announcement. Or maybe those in the political know did expect them.

Pluto is sitting close to the Descendant, and 45 degree semisquare to the Moon, which is opposition Mercury. Lots of power manoeuvring?
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SteveGus



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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this chart, the Moon is a sick little puppy, peregrine, in close but separating opposition to a well dignified Mercury out of the eleventh. Saturn, by contrast, is in his own face, but retrograde, and is co-ruler of 7 with Mars, and lord of 8 and (in a midheaven based chart) 9 outright.

Venus here rules 10, which seems to me to be key in any chart involving governments and public affairs. Venus rules the sign and house of Jupiter. This suggests to me that the party represented by Jupiter will prevail, but the opposition will also do well, and recover some ground they lost in the last election.

The other striking thing about the chart is the hard 12/6 opposition of Mars and Fortuna. The body politic is sick. It sees secret enemies everywhere, some of which are actually real, and is quarreling among itself. The possibility of a serious schism is very real.
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Mark
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteveGus wrote:
Quote:
In this chart, the Moon is a sick little puppy, peregrine, in close but separating opposition to a well dignified Mercury out of the eleventh. Saturn, by contrast, is in his own face, but retrograde, and is co-ruler of 7 with Mars, and lord of 8 and (in a midheaven based chart) 9 outright.


I tend to see the Moon are fairly middling here. Its not in detriment or fall and its strongly affiliated with Jupiter the benefic of sect. Its also increasing in light approaching full phase. Yes its peregrine but its strong connection to Jupiter by domicile, bound and by aspect surely offers mitigation. The Moon is in 6th by WSH but using Equal or any quadrant house system falls in the 5th. So I think this Moon has a fair bit of accidental dignity by house placement. The opposition to Mercury, is as you point out, already separating so less of a problem I think than the Moon's applying opposition to the Sun which is Lord 2 here. Surely an indicator of the financial difficulties ahead for Britain.

SteveGus wrote:
Quote:
This suggests to me that the party represented by Jupiter will prevail, but the opposition will also do well, and recover some ground they lost in the last election.


Well the main opposition are Labour. I dont see them making much ground myself. They seem too divided with many of their own MPS unable to get behind Jeremy Corbyn as the leader. The chart wouldn't be inconsistent with the Conservatives converting a slim majority into a sizeable one.

But of course there are several other opposition parties. Nationally for the Liberal Democrats the 2015 General Election was their political nadir leaving them with a paltry 8 MPS. The only way for them is up and their parliamentary group can be expected to increase significantly benefiting from the pro-remain stance the party has taken on the Brexit. But that recovery will be unlikely to prevent a clear Conservative party win.

The Scottish National Party are already in such a politically dominant position in Scotland holding 56 of the 59 seats at Westminster that the challenge for them will be to retain their current block of seats as an effective mandate for another independence referendum.

Mark
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Last edited by Mark on Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:01 am; edited 3 times in total
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi mark and others,

mark - i always enjoy and value your astro input and insight. thank you..

i am going to spin this differently, although it is hard to over-ride anything mark says, lol..

one of the challenges for me in doing astrology is in separating the different views that i might get from a chart and putting it in some context that others might understand. i just ain't thinking in traditional astrological terms, in spite of my admiration for those who can..

i see a chart that is approaching a full moon.. i see a sun that is essentially making hard aspects to neptune and saturn.. i see the moon engaged in all this too.. ignoring the question of what time of day to use for the election itself, i see these 2 outer planets as bringing more challenge and discomfort to everything here. but hopefully i am wrong and it will bring some clarity and an ability to move forward with what the uk has to work thru..

from an outsiders pov - everything in the uk presently revolves around brexit.. maybe some of it revolves around being a lapdog for the usa too in it's constant movement towards war, but mostly i think people want more clarity over the implications of brexit.. i suspect theresa may is hoping to dispel some of the confusion around this by gaining more confidence to move forward in the way she sees necessary.. i am not following the inner dynamics of british politics, so i might be totally off here.

i got a new 'used' computer and don't have my previous charts on this one to look at mays chart, or the other players charts at present, but i would like to.

the aries ingress chart replicates the same signs on the angles as marks 7am election chart - earlier degrees, but cancer rising, and pisces midheaven using tropical.. moon is in a close conjunction to saturn - both in sag and in the 6th house, 10 degrees from the descendant degree at 7 cap.. it is interesting to see this in both charts essentially. to me it suggests disappointment for the people no matter how you slice it.. i think may is damned if she does and damned if she doesn't... the ingress moon is 4 minutes short of an exact conjunction to saturn at 27sag33..

the summer ingress chart looks much more combative, so maybe in spite of what i say, it will give someone the strength to come out swinging.. again cancer rises but in this chart, the moon is in taurus close to venus, showing more strength here as well. the cap ingress chart has the same degree rising - cancer 7 or 8 basically, but the cap ingress looks strong for different reasons.. will be an interesting year for the uk from looking at these seasonal ingress charts..
more astro food for thought..
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Rocko



Joined: 05 Apr 2013
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do we factor in Postal Votes ? In reality part of the Vote starts several weeks before the Main Day.

"Returning officers issue and dispatch postal ballot packs at 5 p.m. on the eleventh working day before polling day at the earliest."

What percentage are Postal Votes ?

5% ? 10% ?

Thanks to your very interesting messages. Beautifully explained by Mark.

The near Full Moon passes thru Scorpio during the several days leading up to the Election

And we know what that means, don't we !!

Here's a clue ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR0lOtdvqyg

H

PS A few after thoughts. My Electioneering skills are way too rusty to help here much except I think the Neptune MC conjunction needs to be considered.

Delusional Leadership. However, Neptune is in Pisces so that is healthier isn't it?

Here in the South I hear May on the radio making great statements of facts but they are so out of touch it frightens me.

I felt Corbyn was unelectable but yesterday he spoke very well. He's already pulled off one impossible victory.

Also I'd imagine there are about 20,000,000 Voters who want to stay in the EU. Will they vote for a BREXIT Party?

I've just about forgiven the Liberal Democrats for supporting the Tories so people might be coming back to them.

We need a feed to the Twitter Sphere ..
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Andrew Khabaza



Joined: 15 Oct 2014
Posts: 3
Location: Epsom, England, UK

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:27 am    Post subject: Jeremy Corbyn's Birth Time Reply with quote

Does any one have a reliable birth time for the Leader of the Labour Party - Jeremy Corbyn?

If not, what are people's suggestions as to how one should proceed? Sunrise chart? Noon chart? Does anyone have a rectified time?

Birth data for astrotheme.com:
26 May 1949
Chippenham, Wiltshire,UK

All advice welcome.

Andrew Khabaza
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MingWei Wang



Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 93
Location: Taiwan

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use the lord of the year, the opening of poll , and the natal charts for candidates.

Mars is the lord of the year of 2017 in London.

And the Moon rules the ascendent of the Sun Aries ingress chart in London, and Jupiter rules the Mid-heave, Venus is the amulet ruler of the Mid-heave.

Main candidates:

Theresa May, born 1 October 1956

The Sun and Venus in mutual reception ,and Mars in his Triplic. dignity who casts a sinister trine aspect to the Mars in Cancer in the chart of opening of poll.

Jeremy Corbyn, born 26 May 1949

The Sun is in Mercury's sign , and Mars is in his detriment sign and peregrine, who casts a sinister sextile aspect to the Mars in Cancer in the chart of opening of poll.

The testimonies in Theresa May's chart is stronger than Jeremy Corbyn's .

In the opening of poll chart, Venus in feminine sign as well as Mars who is the ruler of the mid-heaven.

So the winner is a woman.
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astralwanderer



Joined: 20 Dec 2012
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Location: Southwest England

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:05 pm    Post subject: Jeremy Corbyn - Rectification Reply with quote

Hi there - I have been using the following chart as a potential rectification for Jeremy Corbyn:

20:27
26 May 1949
Chippenham, Wiltshire,UK

This gives late Scorpio rising.



This is in whole sign house format:



The rectification was based on the placement of Saturn by transit on his ascendant at the time of his first election, square to natal Saturn. For most of the early part of his tenure he had Jupiter by transit in Virgo, the sign of his MC. Jupiter is now in Libra, conjunct natal Neptune, on the cusp of P11 or in the WS12.

The following bi-wheel is instructive showing Corbyn's chart on the inner wheel and the moment for the declaration of the vote in Parliament to have an early election.


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Vicki



Joined: 14 Aug 2012
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Location: Nottingham U.K.

Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another explanation for Neptune so close to the MC :-

The Conservative party is mired in an election expenses scandal from the 2015 election. This is likely to break before long and charges may follow.

Theresa May would want a higher majority to bolster her party.

We're not being told the truth - Neptune indicates something hidden - War ? Expenses? or both ?

Btw Astralwanderer - interesting rectification. Jeremy Corbyn certainly looks like a possible Scorpio.
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ModWasp



Joined: 21 Mar 2014
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We vote for political parties and not for individuals in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

I would suggest chart data concerning political parties would be more appropriate for this topic.

Otherwise, any chart data referring to Corbyn would have to be matched to that of the National Socialist Sturgeon - for it is she who would pull the strings in any configuration of a Lib/Lab/Water Melon* coalition.

*Water Melon - The Greens (green on the outside, red on the inside).

Jupiter, the natural signifier of the Conservative party, turns direct on the 13th June (exactly on the point of Mars,the significator of the establishment in the cardinal grand cross of April 2014).

From November 2018 on, we are looking at deals galore and more importantly, commercial upswing that benefits the ordinary working man/woman/them.

BREXIT will glorious and inspired.

Vote for Jupiter - the natural signifier of the Conservative and Union Party.

I am convinced this Government applies astrology to it's policy.
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Mark
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ModWasp wrote

Quote:
I would suggest chart data concerning political parties would be more appropriate for this topic.


A promising start until you launch into a rather offensive analysis.

ModWasp wrote:
Quote:
Otherwise, any chart data referring to Corbyn would have to be matched to that of the National Socialist Sturgeon - for it is she who would pull the strings in any configuration of a Lib/Lab/Water Melon* coalition.


Nicola Sturgeon leads the Scottish National Party not the ''National Socialist'' party which as I am sure you are all too aware was the party of Adolf Hitler!

Modwasp wrote:
Quote:

*Water Melon - The Greens (green on the outside, red on the inside).


Please stick to the astrology and keep clear of such politically pejorative language.

ModWasp wrote:
Quote:
Jupiter, the natural signifier of the Conservative party, turns direct on the 13th June (exactly on the point of Mars,the significator of the establishment in the cardinal grand cross of April 2014).


Its true the opening of poll chart does have the Conservatives indicated by Moon in Sagittarius but where are you getting the notion that it is the natural significator for the party full stop? Historically, there is quite a strong connection between the Conservatives and Scorpio.

Quote:
From November 2018 on, we are looking at deals galore and more importantly, commercial upswing that benefits the ordinary working man/woman/them.


Astrology?

Mowasp wrote:
Quote:
BREXIT will glorious and inspired.


This kind of naked political partisanship is really not on here. Your in breach of mundane Forum guidelines here. Please check out the forum guidelines:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5239

I dont care what politics anyone has either right , left or centre. The Skyscript mundane forum is not a political soapbox.

ModWasp wrote:
Quote:

Vote for Jupiter - the natural signifier of the Conservative and Union Party.


Because....they are your chosen party? Its kind of neat that Jupiter the great benefic looks after your preferred political party. Have you anything more substantial to offer than political propaganda?

ModWasp wrote:
Quote:
I am convinced this Government applies astrology to it's policy.


I hear astrologers make this kind of comment all the time. But I can think of many astute political reasons why Theresa May has selected this time which have absolutely nothing to do with astrology. Its not really surprising though that a politician in a strong polling position and riding high in approval ratings has this reflected in the astrology.

Mark
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elka



Joined: 17 Apr 2011
Posts: 22

Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For Political/Mundane Astrology I use the actual Event Chart to elicit the outcome - here the 7am chart for the opening of the polling stations; the Chart of the Nation/Country in question - here the UK 1801 chart; the previous Ingress chart for the year ahead; any additional charts, such as natal charts of the prominent leaders etc.

In the Event chart I use the 10th and 4th houses for the government and opposition respectively, while the Ist house represents the matter in hand i.e. the General Election in this case. And I keep to traditional planetary rulers and to the mundane method of what each planet represents...

Cancer rises, Moon is the ruler therefore the matter in hand is very much with the Common People. Moon In Sagittarius opp Mercury in Gemini [Mercury rules the Virgo/4th/Opposition party ]: 'the People are opposed to Labour party and/or its Leader'. However there is *no* aspect between Moon and Jupiter [ruler of Pisces/10th/Tories]: 'the People have no real connection to the Tories as such.'

Station direct Jupiter, however, is in a strong position, trining Gemini Sun/Prime Minister. The Sun, in turn, squares Neptune close to a wide conjunction with the MC/Pisces: 'confusion, duplicity and deception within the ranks of the Tories'. However the ruler of the MC Jupiter stands firm with the Sun [trine]. The PM’s position is strong and she will be able to override any challenge to her leadership/role.

Mercury in Gemini/11th [political and collective ideologies represented by Parliament] rules the End of Matter/Virgo [also the House of the Opposition party]. Mercury is in opposition to the Moon, who, in turn, is separating/distancing itself from these collective notions: 'looks like the people have already made their mind up - the Opposition are isolated/alone and weak' [no further aspects to Mercury and no planets within the sign of Virgo to add to the story]

The Jupiter ruled Incumbent party will remain as such and the Moon ruled Common People in Sag will support them. [probably because there seems to be no other option, due to the ‘weakness’ of the opposition party: ‘the People’s hands are tied’]

Shortly after the ‘conclusion’ of the Election, the Moon moves to a sextile with radix Jupiter at 13 deg [in 10 units of time- or the following day around mid-day] further strengthening the alliance with the Incumbent party. However there is an opposition with radix Sun shortly after, at 17deg [Full Moon]; 'some dispute with the PM and the People - the Moon splitting into various factions- possibly highlighting any ‘Dissenters/Remainers’?'

Two days later the Moon conjuncts radix SaturnR in Sag, ruler of the 7th House of Open Enemies, [reflecting the conjunction in the Ingress chart of March, see below] with PlutoR sitting right on top the Des.

The sign of Capricorn on the 7th could represent the EU. [with whom the UK voted to break away] The ensuing EU negotiation mandate was ‘the reason’ for calling the election in the first place, so Cap/7th seems to fit. Its ruler, SaturnR, trines Uranus in Aries, [from an exact trine in mid May]. So ‘they’ are still in touch: 'the older and younger generation Titan gods, namely the EU leaders'. The retrograde motion of Saturn [and Pluto] also indicates matters that have gone on before the Election [Brexit] and the very nature of how the outer planets are depicted in this chart and the chart of the Ingress [see below], implies the far reaching consequences that will result from the General Election.

However Jupiter, from its position in Libra of the balanced negotiator, is the overall ruler of the Moon and Saturn, who both reside in Sag. The People [and in some ways the EU leaders] have made way for King Jupiter to take over and forge ahead with the so called Mandate and some headway with this perhaps may be seen by early August when Jupiter moves to complete the Trine with the Sun’s original chart position at 17 degs Gemini.

Additional Notes:
I've not studied May or Corbyn's natal charts in detail [birth times unknown] however Corbyn's Sun at 5 Gemini conjuncts The Election chart's Mercury at 2 deg which opposes the Moon: 'his sense of self will be challenged by the Moon [The People]' and just from that aspect alone, together with the standing of Mercury in the Election chart it looks like he may loose the Cause. However his Venus and Mercury do conjunct the chart's Sun, who stands strong with Jupiter- he may continue in his Party as leader and have some sway or influence with ensuing Brexit negotiations.

The Ingress chart of 20th March has Cancer rising at 9 degrees, Moon ruler [Common People] conjuncts Saturn in Sag/6th. Saturn rules the 7th of Open Enemies. Jupiter/4th ruler of Pisces/10th/Government in T square with Uranus/Aries/10th and Pluto/ Cap/7th ....The calling of an early General Election would appear to reflect the disastrous conflicting T Square operating within Westminster, with Brexit at the heart of the matter, thus the need to resolve the situation ‘for the People’ who elected to leave the EU in 2016. The General Election chart reflects and fleshes out these main significators, while the Cancer rising factor, with Moon in Sag, in both charts almost mirror each other, giving emphasis to the Matter in Hand.

1801 Chart: in the General Election chart Cancer rises at 16 deg conjuncting 1801 Moon 19 Cancer 10th; Capricorn descending at 16 degrees is in wide conjunction to the 1801 Sun 10 Cap/ 4th. This Moon/Sun Opposition [although wide] is intrinsic to the nature the UK populace, in my view. There’s a lot of astrological meat to the Moon in the 1801 chart especially [too much to discuss here] but essentially the power has always been with ‘the people’... known about but not acknowledged openly by the Sun/Cap establishment, who have cleverly manipulated and held the electorate to ransom over the ensuing decades, in many underhanded and devious ways.

In the General Election chart the signs of Cancer and Cap move to the 1st and 7th positions respectively vis-à-vis the Electorate v Open Enemy [of the EU establishment]. The UK Government and Opposition [as shown above] are represented by Pisces/Jupiter and Virgo/Mercury respectively. The power of the Moon [the people] appears to have spoken and seems to have called the shots in re-electing the Tories [described above] but, post Election, all will lie with Saturn [the Establishment].

As stated above Saturn here transforms into the EU bureaucratic Establishment, which the Moon encounters, as both conjoin shortly afterwards. But it looks like a case of Saturn swallowing up the Moon, who is in turn fed to the Titan Uranus, sitting high in Aries: ‘the people are sacrificed- their power subjugated’. The Olympian god Jupiter, meanwhile, having taken up the reins of power continually moves forward to eventually meet with SaturnR, in an exact sextile mid to late August - also in Sign and Exaltation [Mixed Reception] - lasting throughout September until Jupiter moves into Scorpio early October. By then Jupiter will have established its superior power and negotiating base over a previously weakened Saturn, who will have just started to move forward again, to eventually re-establish its link with Uranus [mid November].

Jupiter is King until then, after that the ongoing Brexit situation will be ‘in the laps of the gods’ but, nevertheless, Jupiter and Saturn will be the main significators in the way of deals and negotiations throughout the coming months/years.


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