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Cheltenham 2017
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PallasAthene



Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 667
Location: Bristol, UK

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been some great results here. Would love to know more about John's method for picking trainers.

Gold Cup 15:30.

Addey campanus 5th cusp at 1:42 Sag - applies to antiscion of sun at 2:48 libra.

Sun rules 1st and squares saturn.

Moon in fall - I think tends to favour a favourite - but hour ruler in 10th - mars in detriment says a long shot.

Native River 4/1 (pisces = water)
Sizing John 7/1 (sun sq saturn, sun rules 1st for a "name")

Champagne West 14/1 (pastels pisces colours, sun in western quarter)
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PallasAthene



Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 667
Location: Bristol, UK

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sizing John (yellow and green, red hat - significator in terms of mars)
Minella Rocco(yellow and green stripes)
Native River (jup royal colours in quarters)
Djakadam (pastels)

1st and 3rd, happy with that Smile

Sun sq saturn was closest aspect in chart - sun ruled first and was in 8th. Sizing up john for his coffin perhaps?
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PallasAthene



Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 667
Location: Bristol, UK

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

john wrote:
Ascending Degree: This is early days and if it has any success then I cannot claim full credit. Basically each rising degree indicates a successful moment for an individual trainer or jockey or trainer/jockey combination. Once you pick the trainer/jockey then the horse picks itself.


Hi John, can you explain more or is more info on this method available anywhere? How does this correlation work? Are you available to talk to astro groups about this? Can I PM you? Thanks![/b]
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PallasAthene



Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 667
Location: Bristol, UK

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK - just realised I was reading the wrong chart. I had BST not GMT!
Ignore all astrology! Just goes to show, no such thing as a wrong chart!
Addey significator was antiscion of Neptune....
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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 545

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fleur wrote:
Friday 17th March Cheltenham 2.50pm.

I don't know why but I am drawn to Electric Concorde. Maybe Uranus trining the Ascendant.

I don't know much about horse racing, or even how to place a bet. I don't even understand odds, or what odds of winning this horse has. I don't usually pay much attention to trines. I might do a very small bet on Electric Concorde.


Totally wrong. The winners were 1. Penhill. 2. Monalee. 3. Wholestone.

No idea how those relate to the 2.50 chart. Maybe Saturn 27.5 degrees Sagittarius near the fifth house cusp. Maybe that Addey thing about the fifth house cusp matters after all. A hill is a hurdle, and a Lee is something to do with the side of a hill or mountain? A stone is hard so Saturn.
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ModWasp



Joined: 21 Mar 2014
Posts: 615
Location: England

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
3:30
Champagne West
Sizing John


Congratulations to skyjack for the 7/1 winner Sizing John.
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john



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 549
Location: Lancashire, England

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well that was fun!

I hope those reading these posts over the last few days have enjoyed the 'real time' ups and downs of a horse racing festival. Also a thank you to everyone who has posted on this thread, we've enjoyed your contributions.

We think we had astrological fatigue by last night.

Just dealing with the astrology for today:

On Addey, a few winners were noted.

For the Angles, there was a place.

For the Ascending degree, there were a few placed horses.


This was were the fatigue came in: For example the 14.10 Artic Fire was gettable by Addey and Angles. My suggestion was Renneti , trained by Mullins and the winner was a Mullins horse. This was the same for the next race at 14.50 when a Mullins horse was picked and another Mullins horse won

As for the Gold Cup, John had been sizing up every horse at Cheltenham this week, I should have said the cosmos would pick out Sizing John as the winner. Well done to those of you who mentioned the winner, by whichever method. For those of you interested in Al-Kindi, Native River was a good example of a horse with a lighter tail than its body.

16.10, I picked the Nicholls trained short-odds horse for the Ascending Degree and missed his long-odds horse, with Nicholls getting first and second places.

These are examples of this method being in its early stages, as I can get a trainer but combining it with the correct jockey was missing for both Nicholls and Mullins today.

16.50, we wrote down the winner, by Addey, but never mentioned it. The last race highlighted the winner but I suggested other horses.

A list of examples were the fatigue had set in!

PallasAthene, thank you for your comments. I do talks at our local group occasionally. I will PM you with my email if this helps.

If you or anyone wants to go through anything that's been done, including the astrological 'what and how to pick' and the separate 'when to pick' for the gamblers, I'll gladly join in and go in to some more detail.

I may be tempted to do something similar again, but not over four days.
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ModWasp



Joined: 21 Mar 2014
Posts: 615
Location: England

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I may be tempted to do something similar again, but not over four days.


LOL

Royal Ascot..... Cool
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PallasAthene



Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 667
Location: Bristol, UK

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aintree - Grand National - only 3 days : ) 6-8 April so very soon.

The races are run at the same time each day so the same significators tend to come up. 8+ versions of sun in pisces? I do think the charts are still valid - but it does get harder for the reader to interpret due to being human and not divine.
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john



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 549
Location: Lancashire, England

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been asked to say some more about the Ascending Degree method I used for the Cheltenham Festival.

It is quite simple, in that I note when Trainers and Jockeys are successful and see if patterns in the chart repeat. There are a few routes I could pursue but at present I'm noting the Ascending Degree. This seemed to work well enough and I will run with it for the time being.

It is a little different from the method detailed by Joyce Wehrman, but that is due to the speed of the Ascending Sign and that National Hunt is being looked at, rather than the flat.

I'd be interested to know if anyone else decides to run with this technique. I'll see what I can do for Aintree.
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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 545

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fleur wrote:
Fleur wrote:
Friday 17th March Cheltenham 2.50pm.

I don't know why but I am drawn to Electric Concorde. Maybe Uranus trining the Ascendant.

I don't know much about horse racing, or even how to place a bet. I don't even understand odds, or what odds of winning this horse has. I don't usually pay much attention to trines. I might do a very small bet on Electric Concorde.


Totally wrong. The winners were 1. Penhill. 2. Monalee. 3. Wholestone.

No idea how those relate to the 2.50 chart. Maybe Saturn 27.5 degrees Sagittarius near the fifth house cusp. Maybe that Addey thing about the fifth house cusp matters after all. A hill is a hurdle, and a Lee is something to do with the side of a hill or mountain? A stone is hard so Saturn.


What in astrology represents a hill or mountain? Mona seems like mountain. The Lee is the sheltered side of a mountain. Pen as in peninsula, where the sea has worn away three sides of the land leaving a semi-island.

I am wondering if Mars in Taurus behind the Midheaven after all represents the moved earth of a hill or mountain as in Penhill and Monalee? Strange that Mars had nothing to do with Tin Soldier or Battleford though. Maybe because it didn't take into account the Taurus half of it?
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PallasAthene



Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 667
Location: Bristol, UK

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Fleur"]
Fleur wrote:
Maybe that Addey thing about the fifth house cusp matters after all.

Certainly does! My favourite method.

Mercury in aries in the 8th is the significator for the addey chart.

Aries rules hilly land, and land used for grazing - and land where criminals might hide! Wiki says Penhill in North Yorks is not very high for a hill.

Penhill also has evidence of occupation by the Knights Templar. (This is why I love the Addey method - you have to research meanings and you learn so much along the way...gemini NN here!)
Mercury rules the 11th - supporters of the king - and in aries - well, didn't they start the Crusades?

Were the templars ever outlawed in England? (places where criminals hide)
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PallasAthene



Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 667
Location: Bristol, UK

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

john wrote:
... I note when Trainers and Jockeys are successful and see if patterns in the chart repeat. There are a few routes I could pursue but at present I'm noting the Ascending Degree. This seemed to work well enough and I will run with it for the time being.

It is a little different from the method detailed by Joyce Wehrman, but that is due to the speed of the Ascending Sign and that National Hunt is being looked at, rather than the flat.

I'd be interested to know if anyone else decides to run with this technique. I'll see what I can do for Aintree.


Hi John, sorry for the delay in replying.

So - it sounds like you have analaysed a lot of race charts and are noting the correlation of rising degree and successful trainer? (I get the reference to Wehrman now).


Gosh, lots of work there! Any plans to publish? I'd buy that book at full price!
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john



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 549
Location: Lancashire, England

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Pallas, thanks for your kind words.

I didn’t find Joyce Wehrman, rather she found me!

Some older UK astrologers may remember a local group based in Immingham/Grimsby on the east coast of England that was active during the 1980s and 1990’s. It was run by two women, who we know visited the USA for at least one astrology conference.

Unfortunately, we believe both women have now passed away. A family member had gathered both of their book collections and contacted our local group to see if we wanted them. This is the third time we have had a donation of astrology books, which we freely distribute to astrologers in the area.

Within the large collection was ‘Winning, Zodiac Timing revisited’. I’d already had thoughts of moving away from the poetry of horse names and to astrology of the individuals involved, specifically looking at the Ascendant. The book clarified what I was already thinking.

On the inside cover of the book is a hand written note by Joyce Wehrman saying ‘To Rosemary, may you win in life’, perhaps enough of a coincidence to carry me forward with my sports astrology journey.

I’ll see what I can do for the Aintree Festival as well.
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PallasAthene



Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 667
Location: Bristol, UK

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a lovely story! Thank you for sharing.

Do you need the birth data for the trainers? Isn't this hard to secure?
I understand you do not need their time of birth - natal angles are not the only important element in Wehrman's method as plants count too.

So - AC of the race chart lines up with a "lucky" planet (sun, moon, venus jupiter ?) of trainer's natal and there's your winning trainer?
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