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Pray before reading
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Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 817
Location: Canada

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(continued from my previous post)

Autumn, thanks again for your thoughtful reply. You've given us a lot of food for thought.

I might mention that I was well into middle age before I began reading horoscopes for other people, and 40 before I even started to learn astrology. Since then, I've put on a lot of astro-mileage.

When I first read some horoscopes on my own, it was a huge awakening. I did feel that a horoscope showed us the wiring of the soul. Or that astrology let us look under the hood (bonnet, to any Brits here) of the external human being. It felt sacred.

In that state, when I first read some on-line charts for people, I retained some of that sense of caution and awe. Possibly as a result, I had some good beginner's luck.

What I have learned since then, is that most on-line "read my chart" requests are not asking for esoterica. Querents primarily want to know about their relationships, their work, their bodily health. Maybe travel, housing, or money. Rarely do I find someone wondering about her spiritual purpose in life.

And I am good with that, because in my cosmos, people incarnate into the material plane for a reason. I think that we, as human beings, are precisely meant to deal with our bodies, other people's bodies, our material circumstances, and exterior personalities. We'll live in the next dimension soon enough.

So to come full circle to my OP, I wonder to what extent it is possible to interact with people on their own material terms, while keeping a spiritual context for my efforts.

Granted, people come to spirituality on their own, and on their own terms, but Wherein Is It Written that you or I cannot be part of their process? Maybe we were the ones "meant" for their spiritual progress??

In one brand of spiritual astrology, people are on the planet to learn and to teach. What this looks like for us is indicated by our pre-natal lunar and solar eclipses. But we are on the planet to teach-- even if by negative example.

I don't think it is ethical to answer-- or even to explore-- certain types of astrological insights when dealing with vulnerable people. But I will give you an example, or case study, of practical, kitchen-table advice.

A wife suddenly learns that her husband is leaving her for another woman, planning an immediate separation and subsequent divorce. She is understandably focused on the astrology of the "Why?" or "Will he return?" She's never even thought about what a divorce entails in practical terms. So after explaining her rough 7th house, it doesn't hurt to suggest that, if she hasn't done so already, that she immediately deal with any joint bank accounts or liquid assets, so that the husband doesn't suddenly clean her out financially. Cancel any joint credit cards. See a lawyer immediately to draft up a separation agreement. This is for her own protection, based on decades of wives' real experiences.

This isn't about tinkering with the wife's soul. It is about trying to be helpful in the here and now. If the wife says, "Buzz off," because she knows all about divorce issues, no harm done.

But I am not saying, whatsoever, Autumn, that you or anybody else should give astrological or collateral advice if you do not wish to.

And I do greatly appreciate the spiritual approach that you bring to astrology.
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Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pankajdubey wrote:
I think ,
Praying before a consult is a welcome distraction which takes away your mind from pre-conceptions you may have and start afresh. The god doesn't matter the pause and blank mind does help.

I agree! Some of the ancient Greek astrologers prayed to Mercury, the god of astrology. Lilly was a Christian. That in itself raises some interesting theological questions. But regardless, there is a long history of astrologers trying to create a separate and distinctive space between their everyday lives and their time with the horoscope.
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Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

waybread you seriously do not need to explain yourself to anyone. You are ian intelligent mature individual well capable in making decisions and accepting results.

What you need to consider is that asking guidance from inexperienced indoviduals will result in perpetuating problems resulting in some turbulent results for you. After all energy released out by you returns home to you. Good intentions that create problems or turbulence for others do not tend to have happy endings for the perpetrator irrespective of intent.

The best action is to equip yourself with a professional consulting therapy course and undergo own therapy to experience first hand. I think there are some year long ones...not that long!

Otherwise you are going into battle with a reed.

One tip i may give is that focusing on whatever it is ...question, skill, problem....and meditating for as long as it takes usually gives excellent results.

I dont know which way is best for you to meditate...its very individual. Techniques abound. I prefer movement or sleep but its a personal to user thing.

I wish you luck anyway with your adventures.
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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Say what?

Sorry, Autumn. I appreciate your willingness to give me advice. Lord knows I could use some.

But we seem to have very different metaphysical and practical understandings of human nature and astrology.

Actually I was in therapy for a while with a Ph. D. clinical psychologist who subsequently published some books that made her well-known. I've also been a client in a few stints of marriage counseling. I learned through these sessions that psychologists, no matter how credentialed, are not always terrifically helpful. One of them was actually a distinct waste of money; although in general I sometimes recommend that people seek the services of a licensed therapist, notably for PTSD, childhood sexual abuse, depression, &c. I also sometimes recommend Al Anon.

I think sometimes it is helpful for someone coming to a forum with a "poor me" attitude to get angry. It shows he is willing to stand up for himself and recognize that core of self-worth. Anger is a natural human emotion. We don't have to fear it. Everybody has Mars somewhere.

Ultimately each person has to take responsibility for his/her own identity and actions. No one else can do this for her. This includes people seeking answers on an astrology forum.

The OP here is actually about the question of praying, meditating, centering, or letting-go, prior to initiating a horoscope reading.
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Joined: 20 Apr 2012
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Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:30 pm    Post subject: pray before a reading Reply with quote

I started out with a raw feeling that there was something profoundly wrong with the way the world was going and that this had to be turned around. And with modern science. As Arthur Koestler said, around the time of the A bomb, they have done the equivalent of handing a fun to a two-year-old. And I think that the change that came about in the sixteenth century if not before was to assume tat "the natural world" was strictly material and had no mind or soul and could be understood "objectively" by nutriments and had nothing to tell us.
Until the experiment that showed that whether an electron was a wve or particle depended on whether or not it was observed. Now I believe that that also tells us a lot about human beings. Do we ask ourselves whether we are the same person whether or not we know we are being observed?
I remember my own first moment of true consciousness, at around four I would say, when I first became aware that I was actually breathing, it wasn't just happening to me. What a responsibility! What if I forgot and just died? Then a feeling came over me and I felt somehow I was being touched and I knew i was now like my older friends and able to say like them "I did this yesterday" or " I will do this next week" and that this was something that happened to everybody.
Something maybe that happened to an an electron/wave? And did something also change the scientists who observed it?
When two sentient humans (or more) encounter each other, are both the same afterwards? Science has shown that there are such thins called "mirror neurons" that make the same neurons fire upon the brain of an observer of an action that are fired up in that of the performer. For the early years we all, if we are to survive, must learn to imitate those around us.
But "scientists" by imputing only mechanics to the world around us, and spending so much of their energy in "objective" observations, would logically subject themselves to the danger of becoming not people, but "things"" themselves, As William Blake aid "We become what we behold."
Astrology is the only art/science that has held out and has not left the observer out of the equation. I also think that logically the planets themselves must alter their meanings, ever so slightly perhaps, with every contact they make with humans or each other.
That is why, if and if ever, the "scientists" turn around and retrace their steps, we may be ble to help.
Beauty is truth, truth beauty
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope you find this thread informative:

It is important to distinguish between the physical, natural, and medical sciences; social science; and the humanities. It is important to distinguish between science, scientists, and scientism. Too often astrologers who criticize science do not know any scientists personally, and do not know what goes on in science today.
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